Aspects I: Astrology 101

Kyle 0:05

Hello and welcome to astrology hotline, the podcast where we answer all your burning birth chart and astrology questions. We are going to be finishing off our astrology 101 series with a discussion on the aspects. And joining us for that discussion is Ada Pembroke. Welcome ADA.

Tristan 0:25

Welcome to the show Ada.

Ada 0:26

Hi, thank you for having me.

Kyle 0:28

Our pleasure. So you just for the listeners who maybe aren't familiar with your work lunch, tell us a little bit about yourself what you do.

Ada 0:38

Thank you. So my background is evolutionary astrology I was mentored by one of Stephen Forest students. And in recent years, I have been expanding into incorporating traditional techniques into my otherwise modern practice, I would say at this point I am. I'm pretty 5050 evolutionary and traditional. I can kind of speak both languages. My specialty is helping people to understand the stories that they're telling about their lives and use astrology to reframe them and rewrite their life stories into something that they find more satisfying.

Tristan 1:15

I love that. That's a great use of astrology.

Kyle 1:18

Thank you. So love that I know. I was really drawn to. I know you talked about like a narrative astrology. Yes. Which like I love that just as like a term or category because like, I like to frame things around that it's just like, didn't have that, like that word narrative. Like, it's like, yeah, this is like, how do you reframe the story that you're telling yourself and that the story is describing? And like that's ends up being you know, how I approach charts as well. I love that. It's an absolute pleasure to have you on.

Ada 1:53

I'm so happy to be here.

Kyle 1:54

So I don't have any pre loaded banter for us. Chatting, plenty before the show. So do we want to just like dive headfirst into into the, the curriculum,

Tristan 2:10

if you will? Yeah, let's do it. So this is part of our 101 series, we're finally tackling the aspects. And I guess the time coming a long time coming, it's the starting point, as always, is to define what the aspects are. And they are geometrical relationships between points and a chart. So they're all different ways of dividing a circle, essentially, since the birth chart is a two dimensional model of a three dimensional world, you just see a great big circle and the aspects divide the circle in various ways. And they create polygons, depending on how the circle is divided. So you know, you have the square, which is 90 degrees apart, two objects that are 90 degrees apart, if you have four objects that are all 90 degrees apart on a circle, you see a great big square. So that's kind of the it's it's some simple math. But what these geometrical relationships allow us to do is get a sense of the kinds of conversations that planets and points are having in a chart. It allows planets to have an effect on one another and allows planets to have an effect on angles in a chart and, and that sort of thing. And the kind of aspect that's happening tells you something about the quality of that conversation. Is it tense? Is it pleasant? In the case of a conjunction? Is it like it complete union of two or more forces that are just sort of blended into one thing? Yeah, so I think that's, you know, basically what aspects are if there's anything I've left out, please, Ada and Kyle jump in. And

Ada 3:59

I love how you're framing it in terms of conversations, you know, my my narrative thing, as soon as you say that I hear dialogue, and I'm like, yes. Is this where the action comes in?

Tristan 4:09

Yeah, it really is kind of where the action comes in. You've got like, with the signs and the houses, you've kind of got like the stages set. Everyone is in the place where they're supposed to be, but they're not really doing anything until they're actually interacting with each other. And then you've got like, the action and dynamism and everything. So kind of the aspects are on the chart to life

Ada 4:31

alliances and intrigue.

Tristan 4:33

Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's where all the juices.

Kyle 4:39

Yeah. And actually, we'll continue with that analogy, because I know we've been kind of using that sort of movie analogy or that stage analogy. Think of like the would we say the, the like, the sign is kind of like the, the genre of the movie, maybe? Like the costume is sort of like the flavor, you know, the house is like the scene, sort of like the the scene in the movie or like what's happening, you know, the aspects do they give it like plot, they give the actors a plot, that's the dialogue between the actors on the stage. And I think really, you could probably sum up aspects, most simply is just describing as the relationships between planets. And the nature of the aspect, like the, the geometrical pattern is like, one of the sort of keys to finding the flavor of that interaction. But then there's like, a lot of other levels to that interaction that hopefully, in this set of episodes, we can maybe reveal some of the nuance in the way planets interact with each other. While we're talking about the aspects, I think it's kind of the the goal, because the trying, you know, isn't always happy fun times, you know, in a square isn't always super tense, difficult, or negative situation, just depending on the other layers of that relationship.

Tristan 6:09

Definitely, it gets, it gets complicated, but we'll try to stay simple for now. Because, you know, I mean, for if we're talking about relationships between planets, just like relationships between people, it's never as straightforward as you will and simple as you'd like it to be. I do want to get to the complicated part. You're, you're good at the complicated stuff, you're good at layers, just sort of holding layers and layers of information in your brain simultaneously and making sense of them, which is the quality that's very beneficial for an astrologer.

Kyle 6:41

Yeah, it's good to have the be able to do the basic part though, too, you gotta like butter, butter up the bread before you put on all the ingredients.

Tristan 6:54

So I do want to mention, something important to know about aspects is that they happen when signs share qualities in common. So for example, in the case of a Trine when, say, two planets are 120 degrees apart, vast majority of the time, if they're 120 degrees apart, which creates a Trine they will be in the same element. So Pisces and Cancer, for example, both water signs, and they try and one another. And so they they have a relationship, they have some sort of common ground upon which to base a dialogue. There's some understanding there because they're in signs of the same element. And with squares, you have signs of the same mode, and so on. So every single one of the traditional aspects, conjunction, opposition square sextile, and try and there's some quality one or more qualities that the signs making that aspect to each other share in common. And without that there isn't really a basis for communication. It's like if an alien visited Earth, and tried to talk to you, and they're like, you're a carbon based life form, they're silicone based life form, like they communicate, but in a way that doesn't use language, and we're bound by language. And it's just like, imagine, you know, there's just no, there's nothing in common on which to base the dialogue, it becomes really difficult to have a relationship. And so when that happens, when signs don't share any qualities in common, they don't make a major aspect to each other and add that condition is called aversion. So, you know, as an example, the sign of Gemini is an Air sign, it's diurnal polarity, it is mutable. And the sign of cancer has absolutely none of those three things in common. So Gemini and Cancer are in aversion. They don't make an aspect to each other. And that condition is important in interpretation, astrology, because you can see where things are just sort of not seeing eye to eye where there isn't a connection. And some astrologers use what are called minor aspects, which are different ways of dividing the circle between signs that don't have those qualities in common. So we probably won't get too deep into those today, because we don't want to complicate stuff too much. But I know, Ada, we were talking about a bit about minor aspects before we started recording, and there's one that you work with and the way you described it, I felt really was really cool, and also is a really good way of describing the condition of aversion in general. So I don't know if you want to talk a bit about that.

Ada 9:52

Yeah, absolutely. So I work with Quinn Cox's and Quinn Cox's have a really interesting Relationship with modern astrology. Of course, there are modern astrologers who work with all of the minor aspects. But the school of astrology that I was brought up in, so to speak, only used the same aspects that traditional astrologers use the five Ptolemaic Ptolemaic aspects. But people in the community kept on tripping over Quinn compasses. And so finally, it there was just this growing consensus that we needed to work with quincunx is because they kept on getting people in trouble. And that's a pretty good description of what quincunx is our Quinn Cox's are when you have two planets that are like, it's almost like a broken opposition, they would be opposed to each other, except that they're one sign over. So it's like this, this, this really weird, discordant note. And I love what you said about aliens trying to communicate because I feel like that's a really good way of understanding quincunx is imagine if you've got this silicon based life form, and this human who are put in a ship that is crashing into the earth, and they somehow have to figure out how to work together to keep the ship from crashing. That is a quincunx, they have nothing in common. They can't communicate, they have no common frame of reference. And yet, if you can't get them to work together, you're going to be in serious trouble.

Kyle 11:29

get really creative to find a way to absolutely, that's yeah, that's how I was just thinking about the movie Close Encounters of the Third Kind, where, like, the alien ship is like there on earth, and a lot of times to see the movie, but that sort of famous scene where they like start communicating through music, it's like finding that connection. Because Struzan was already describing the, the aspects are based off of those geometrical relationships between the signs. And we'll probably get more into detail later about the sort of the degree based aspect and out of sine aspects and that sort of thing. But you can get a lot about looking at the way signs that are in that aspect with each other sort of Jive or don't jive. Right. But we talked a bit about this. Previously, a couple weeks ago, you know, before we were recording the, it was telling us about quincunx is and it like really got me like thinking about it. And it's they make a lot more sense to me now than they did before. Especially because I love you know, I can't just take tradition, you know, I can't just accept traditions.

Tristan 12:54

Absolutely not, that's not what we're about here.

Kyle 13:03

But there's actually a lot of basis for it in other systems of astrology as well that are also very old if you need that. But I have a moon Venus quincunx that like got me like thinking I was like, huh, I can see how Venus in the moon totally stumble over each other in my life zones like the I don't know, I can be very awkward about expressing affection to other people sometimes or feel very awkward about it. Sometimes, affection will feel like an alien language to me sometimes, depending on the circumstances. Not that I'm totally unaffected, but

Tristan 13:45

pretty, it's pretty

Kyle 13:50

was what is it? I actually ended up for the first time in a long time and just like looking up an aspect, like I used to do when I was first learning astrology. I was like, What is Moon Venus? And I was like, Oh, wow. Because it's like talking about, you know, communicating needs in like, it's like, oh, yeah, I've had to work on that. You guys. Yeah. Well, you both have quincunx as well.

Ada 14:17

I have a moon necessary not Moon mercury, Saturn quincunx which is very interesting, because on the whole, you're right that there is nothing that couldn't cause planets have in common but there's this rare situation where if you have a quincunx between Scorpio and Aries or Taurus and Libra, they actually share a rulership. So I have that, you know, highly disciplined tripping over Mercury needing to say the first thing that comes to mind saying that they have Mars in common. So I have this really weird situation where or I have to work really hard to get them to work together when I'm communicating, except for when I'm angry. And as soon as I'm angry, I get incredibly eloquent. Out of nowhere. I have actually been in relationships where people are like, how do I get you more angry so that you actually

Tristan 15:21

can and that's the opposite problem. I kind of want to make a note of this maybe something. Yeah, I also have the opposite problem. If I'm angry, I just cry and leave. Not a good, angry communicator. Typically, I'm a typical cancer, I just get overwhelmed. And I'm like, I'm gonna go be alone for a while and cry. And when I'm not angry anymore than we can continue this conversation.

Ada 15:51

Mars in Gemini too. Yeah, I do. Angry communication. I live with Oh, my goodness, I am so sorry.

Tristan 16:01

I mean, it's, it's fine. Because in the case of my partner, the anger is usually directed at like people who are very much not me. Like people not wearing masks in public, like that kind of thing. That's where the Mars and Gemini comes out. And he can really go the other one is the dog. And I don't know what the dog is saying. So I have nothing to be upset about. I just know he's angry. And he's generally also angry at other dogs not at humans. So like the Mars and Gemini is never directed at me, so it's fine. So you can just I can see it. It's just Yeah, exactly. I can just watch as the world unravels around me.

Kyle 16:48

Here Mars is are very good at getting angry at like abstract concepts or at humanity in general. But it's it tends to not be is directed at specific people. Oh, yeah,

Ada 17:00

you should hear me rant about capitalism. I mean, what? I've got the Moon and Jupiter in Aquarius, too. So like everything is this like society wide systemic problem, and I will tell you all about it.

Kyle 17:13

Oh, I got Mars in Aquarius. Yes. Good. We could we could have an episode of just ranting about politics. Yeah.

Tristan 17:20

Well, now we have so that we have two things I want to table one is maybe when we're done going over the basics of aspects, we might want to talk about the ways that planets in a version can actually have weird relationships like when they share a ruler, and also a podcast episode featuring just people with air Mars placements.

Ada 17:44

Oh my god, you be the most chaotic.

Tristan 17:46

We have. We have Barney, who is our guest for the signs episodes who can come on who has Mars in Aquarius? So I think the three of you can just rant about society together. And it will be like an astrological case study. It's like being a field biologist of astrology. You can just observe the air Mars people in their natural habitat.

Ada 18:10

Oh my goodness, I love this.

Kyle 18:14

I am glad this is recorded because now I can't forget it. Exactly. We need to hunt down on Mars and Libra. For sure.

Tristan 18:23

So back to the

Kyle 18:26

Oh, yeah. No, I definitely really do want to talk about something it's very important to get the basics covered before we dig into the that we've already done it a little bit but into the ways that signs planets in different signs that are in a version can interact with each other because they can and they do. And there's lots of ways that they can do that. It's actually where you get some really interesting stuff. But we'll table that table it for now stick with the basics, even though we ended up kind of starting with Quinn Cox's

Tristan 19:00

I kind of I wanted people to be familiar so that the aspects we're going over today are you know, as I've mentioned that they're called the major aspects. You'll hear them called traditional aspects you'll hear them called the Ptolemaic aspects. I think Aida, you mentioned the term Ptolemaic. These are all different ways of describing the five aspects that have been used throughout the history of Western astrology from the time of Hellenistic astrology, the conjunction, the opposition, the square, the Trine and the sextile. But obviously, you know, if you're new to astrology, and you're looking at your chart, even if you look it up on astro.com, you're gonna see all kinds of weird symbols for minor aspects as well. So we're not covering those in detail, something to be aware of, if you're new to astrology, that they do exist, and they are part of astrology is proud tradition of complicating things even further. Thank you. Every pass, it was Yeah, Kepler decided that everything in astrology should be about math and introduced us to the minor aspects. So thank you for that Johan can Fleur?

Ada 20:01

I hate Yeah, the massification of everything is just like, No, I can't do this. And

Tristan 20:09

and that's what I love about the the traditional aspects is that they are just based on these. They're mathematical relationships. But they're also based on things that are not mathematical like relationships between signs of the same element or signs of the same mode, it's a little easier to wrap your head around that than all the numerology, it's easy for me to understand why two planets and fire signs would understand each other than it is for me to understand like, oh, there, you know, 120 degrees apart. And that means something whereas they're both in fire signs, that definitely means something to me.

Ada 20:46

My favorite story for how to understand why some signs are able to relate to each other in some signs or not, is that this isn't an ancient story. I think it's from the Hellenistic period. You imagine the signs as all being people who are sitting at a round table, and the signs that are next to each other don't have a relationship, because if you're sitting at a round table that's packed enough, you have to really crane your head to see the people who you're directly sitting, right. And the people who are quincunx are often difficult to see because it's at this really weird angle. So if you can kind of imagine yourself sitting in a sign and looking around, it gives you a better idea of like, why some signs relate to each other easily. And some signs don't.

Tristan 21:30

It makes a lot of sense. And I guess the I mean, so the funny thing about the conjunction is that it wasn't considered an aspect because originally, you know, the term aspect refers to like seeing one another and a conjunction is actually blending, you're not looking at each other, you've become one. But for you know, simplification, we just call it an aspect and number at among the other kinds of relationships planets have, but I guess, if you're using the dinner table, like the round table, image, then a conjunction is literally you're sitting on that person's lap, you know, you're not sitting next to each other, you're on each other.

Kyle 22:05

Either you become one or you're uncomfortably sandwiched in the back of a very small car together, or you're talking over each other.

Tristan 22:15

I think that's a really, that's a really great visual. And I think we'll probably make more use of that as we go and explain the aspects. I do want to mention. So I've mentioned how aspects are mathematical relationships. And so when you're looking at aspects, you know, if you're looking up your chart on astro.com, you'll see numbers, you'll see numbers with degree symbols next to them. And you know, those indicate if you're looking at a planet and the planet, you know, says it's at one degree of Gemini that tells you of the sort of 30 degrees that are allotted to Gemini out of this 360 degree circle. Your planet is that the first one. And so the degree that a planet is at also comes into play when you're looking at aspects. So if one planet is in Leo, and another planet is in Aries, they're both in fire signs they're trying. But if the one planet is at 15 degrees of Leo, and the other planet is at 15 degrees of Aries, that's a really, really, really close Trine by degree. So you may run into terms like whole signs, and whole sign aspects versus degree based aspects. So if two planets, I know that Kyle and I, we use this sort of Hellenistic approach to aspects where as long as two planets or points are in signs that aspect each other regardless of what degree they're in, they're an aspect so if you've got planets at one degree of Gemini and a planet of 29 degrees Aquarius, even though they're really far apart by degree, they're both in air signs, so they're still in a Trine Bible sign. But if they're closer by degree, it just sort of amps up the intensity. And it's sort of like the chart is putting an exclamation point on this aspect that like, these two are really engaged with each other and whatever is indicated by their relationship is extra important. So really pay attention to those ones that are close by degree.

Kyle 24:29

Could be how I approach if you tend to approach it similarly or do you have a kind of a different way?

Ada 24:35

That's absolutely how I approach it that's actually canonical for evolutionary astrology, at least as as Stephen forest teaches it. The way that I was taught to work with them is that planets that are making an aspect by sign are always in relationship with each other. But whether you're you decide to deal with sign based aspects or not depends on The amount of information that you want to be dealing with with the chart at the time. So if you have a whole bunch of aspects, and you're feeling overwhelmed, tighten up the orbs so that you're dealing with less information. But if you're the kind of person like you who is able to deal with a ton of information, then considering the relationships between all of the planets in the chart gives you a more complete and total picture, but also more information to deal with at the same time.

Tristan 25:31

I'm glad you mentioned orbs, because I think that's another important thing we should probably mention. Sorry, I cut you off. Kyle, you go ahead, and then we can define orbs?

Kyle 25:40

Yeah, no, yeah, that's, um, I tend to take a similar approach, where basically the aspects that are closest in degree, I'm going to look at first, and if somebody has a bunch of them, you know, probably not going to get to the ones that are wide, you know, but people who have a lot more who don't maybe have a lot of really tight aspects, you know, those wider orbed, if you will, aspects tend to be a lot more important, a lot more relevant. Because I just tend to look at, you know, looking at things from the perspective of one planet, like, what, what's the closest applying aspect? You know, what's the closest separating one, you know, what other relationships are there? And you can sort of kind of grade a little bit from there.

Tristan 26:33

Yeah, that's, that is also my approach for sure.

Kyle 26:35

Think about it as like that planets a character in a movie, you know, who, who is it that fun to have the most dialogue with? In the movie? You know? Yeah, who are they engaging with all the time, who sits there? Magic foil, if you will.

Tristan 26:54

I like that metaphor a lot, sort of like, who has the most number of lines of dialogue with you have all of your colleagues in a play or a movie, that sort of the the planet that is closest in aspect to you by degree is the one you have the most screen time with? Yeah, I love that too. And I should probably define orbs really quick. So that's another there's a lot of jargon in this discipline. So another piece of Astro jargon that you'll run into if you're first learning and you're learning about aspects is orb. And that is a way of describing how close or far away two planets are in their aspect by degree. So to give an example, if you are looking at a conjunction of two planets in the same sign, say we've got Saturn and Mercury in Libra, and Saturn is at 16 degrees of Libra, and Mercury is at 15 degrees of Libra. They are one degree apart. So you'd say that's an orb of one degree. And you know, in some traditions of astrology, you don't use whole sign aspects. And so there will be sort of a predetermined orb and past that point, you don't pay attention. So maybe the orb is 10 degrees. And if there if the orb is greater than 10 degrees, you don't pay attention to the aspect. Medieval astrology has some really, really complicated orb stuff going on. And if you're into that, I'll put a link to an article in the show notes if you really want to dig into how orbs were used in medieval astrology they got very into this and very strict about it. I like the way evolutionary and Hellenistic astrology do it personally where it's a little more flexible, a little bit less math.

Kyle 28:47

I I'm so grateful for I actually love the elegance of math, in that. I like it as the basis for like, justifying something or explaining something like it has a mathematical basis. I'm like, Oh, cool. I can I can set my coffee down on that. But I think I really like when other people do that math for me. I could not have been an astrologer 50 years ago, I just couldn't have been grateful that's the other people smarter than me have done all that work for me.

Ada 29:20

Thank goodness for astrology software. It allows poets to be astrologers.

Kyle 29:25

Exactly. The art, the art, the kids,

Ada 29:31

liberal arts majors doing math.

Kyle 29:35

I bet you that probably explains so much about the ways modern astrology has changed. Oh yeah, it's less scientists and mathematicians who are delineating fate. You know, and even people with a more creative, open minded perspective on things who are, you know, going to look at things a little differently.

Ada 29:57

You don't need trigger to cast a chart anymore. tweets.

Tristan 30:04

It's great. Another thing I think we just mentioned, was applying and separating some more important jargon. Both aspects. Are the two planets getting closer in their aspect, or are they getting farther away from their aspect by degree. So an aspect that's applying easy example is the moon because it moves really, really quickly. If the Moon is at six degrees of Pisces, and Saturn is at seven degrees of Pisces, the moon moves faster than Saturn, it's approaching that conjunction with Saturn. And so that's an applying aspect. Whereas once the moon hits eight degrees of Pisces, the aspect is separating. And there are interpretive distinctions, applying aspects or thought, at least in Hellenistic astrology to be another sort of exclamation point, if you're looking at the aspects in your chart, and you notice some that are applying, especially if they're really close that sort of like pay attention to this. I pay attention to both I think this sort of energy of the dialogue is different. I don't know how how you to treat applying and separating aspects differently.

Kyle 31:24

Yeah, I'm actually good topic, I think, because there is a lot of different like ideas about it. And I'm actually curious what you guys think, because I know for me, like, say, the traditional Hellenistic approach will often kind of treat it black and white in a lot of the texts, but you'll find actually a lot more nuanced interpretation in ancient texts, as well, but that applying aspects are things that will happen in the future things, the events that will transpire, separating aspects, things that maybe look like they're going to happen, but they don't or, or things that happened in the past before you were born. And in practice, I don't find that really to be very useful. And applying aspects certainly are a lot more. Explanation mark is a good word for it. I find that like, separating aspects, it's like almost stuff that like you sort of come into the world with a little bit like they're a little more ingrained in your your DNA, if you will, which actually sort of ties into that idea of things that happen before, but when I think about it, in terms of like, the the moon, right, and actually, it's a traditional technique to look at the last 30 degrees of the moon, and all the aspects that it made, leading up to where it is in the chart, and then like the next 30, and sort of tells you the story of that moon, and often that person's life and a lot of ways. But, you know, thinking about it in terms of the aspect, being something that relationship, and it's like the planet, when it's separating from the aspect, it's sort of carrying that aspect with it. on its journey, it's in its backpack, you know, it's, it's sort of loaded up a little bit with it. And as it moves forward, it's going to kind of spend that energy spend it, it might diminish, you know, the further and further away that you get. But I often find that in practice, like they're still very relevant. And often transfer events transpire around separating aspects. I think when the relationship is also emphasized in other ways that we'll talk about, that relationship becomes a lot more strengthened, you know, if they're in each other's signs, for example, or one of the planets isn't the other planet sign. There's reception.

Tristan 34:01

Yeah, I love the sort of using the moon to tell the story, like looking at what it did, you know, before the event happened, and after the event happened, and all the aspects it makes, there is a sort of past things that happened in the past quality to separating aspects and things that are coming to be in the future quality to applying aspects. As you know, you can probably tell by now I lean pretty heavily on the aspects as being sort of dialogue. And so I that's often how I differentiate applying and separating is it's like if you look ahead of you across the street, and you see somebody you know, and you're walking towards each other. That moment has a certain quality to it. And then you meet and you say hello and you make small talk and get caught up. And then you go your separate ways, but there's still there's been this energy exchange that's happened you've had an effect on one another. And so Even though you're going your separate ways that energy is still lingering like, you might have been in a really crappy mood, you might have been like walking down the street, thinking about an argument you got in with your boss. And then you see somebody that you really like up ahead that you know, and you have a really nice chat with them, and it cheers you up, and now your whole outlook has changed. And that stays with you after the interaction. So I tend to think that separating aspects, although you're sort of leaving the the maximum intensity of the interaction, the energy of the interaction is still present. And now you're sort of carrying it with you. So there's sort of maybe a bit of symbolism of like experience that comes with the separating aspects, even if you're not sort of looking at it as this is something that's going to come in the future. versus something that happened in the past, looking at it as you know, an applying aspect is like this is something that I need to learn. And a separating aspect is more like this is something that I've already experienced, that has a strong effect on me that I sort of come into this world having a bit more of a grasp on that can be an interpretive distinction that I find useful personally.

Kyle 36:10

Yeah, I mean, that's perfect. You're gonna say something later, but I had to get the thought out, because it's it, I always think about it is like, no, like old married couples, it's like, they don't necessarily need to talk all the time, because like, they already kind of like, read each other's minds, you know, they're already the relationship is it's like already well established. While like in applying aspects, like somebody you meet on the street, and you're like, Oh, I'm excited to meet this new person who has all these new experiences to share with me. But like, often the relationships that you go back to that stay important in your life are the ones that are like, you don't have to maintain too much, or you don't have to, you can take for granted a little bit, or Yeah, cuz it's like more comfortable. So I mean, I don't always look at a separating aspect is like a negative thing. It's almost like, there's like a gym, like the it's like gentler, or it's I don't know, sometimes it can be easier, in a sense, where it's just like, like you were saying, Tristan, like, Oh, so you have an aspect, some kind of another, like, indicating really good at math. Maybe it's like separating, it's like, oh, the math just kind of comes easily to me. I'm not like obsessed with math. I'm not like, I need to dig and dig and find all the new maths and invent new forms of math that anybody does. I'm not a mathematician. But yeah, it's like easy, it's natural, you know?

Ada 37:44

Think that there are a lot of similarities between the way that you to approach planning and separating aspects and the way that I approach them. As an evolutionary astrologer, I really like the metaphor of past lives. I don't, I don't know what I believe about them. Literally, I'm not much of a person for believing things literally. Unless it's like, you know, based in science, like I'm not like a climate denier or anything. But when it comes to like metaphysical, very good company. But when it comes to metaphysical stuff, I really like to think of things in terms of stories. I, my background is in fiction writing. So that's just naturally the way I see the world. That's why the narrative astrology thing. So the way that I like to think about applying and separating aspects is separating aspects are things that are carried over from past lives, and they're separating. So the story is resolved. But the effects of what happened are still reverberating, you have ingrained habits from from the past that you've carried over into this life, you might have skills that you've learned, like, I love your mathematician metaphor, like, if you were a crazy, awesome mathematician, if you were Kepler in a past life, you probably are amazing at working with minor aspects and you'll carry that skill forward with you. But maybe that's not the main plot for you anymore. Maybe you have that ability, but you've come into this life with another aspect that is inclining you to be a poet and maybe it's a I don't know if you work with modern planets, but maybe you've got a moon aspecting Neptune thing and it's an applying aspect. And something that is coming down the pike for you something that's going to be part of your story is learning how to work with more mystical ways of knowing more political ways of knowing. So the separating aspects are things that are in the past. They're not the main story anymore. You might have habits, you might have repercussions, you might have wounds that you're still dealing with. If there is an aspect it is still relevant. But applying aspects are kind of like the signs that you see when you're driving down the highway that tell you that there's an exit coming or something. They maybe aren't things that you're working with yet, or not things that you're bringing from a past life. But they are increasingly relevant to you as you go through your life. I was reading in, I don't remember if it's Chris Brandon's Hellenistic astrology, or it was either Chris Brennan Dimitra, George, or Charles bears books on traditional astrology yesterday, but they were saying that if you depending on the distance between the planets, you can see where where in your life, something is going to happen. So if it's 123, it's going to be something that you experienced in your youth seven, to three to seven, middle age seven to 10. And plus, it's going to be something you meet when you're older. And so like, I see orbs and applying aspects that way, it says, it tells you what's coming and tells you roughly when it's coming so that you can prepare.

Tristan 41:12

I like that a lot. I like the sorry, Kyle, you look like you have a thought and I know that you will lose it. And I will probably remember mine. So

Kyle 41:23

the Three Stooges trying to get to the doorway, right now. Well, the first one was I was just I was feeling very validated actually is the word I'm going to use internally, same by Yeah, what it was saying about just be using, like, I feel very similarly about past lives, I'm not really sure where I stand on it, but it's a beautiful metaphor for what we're describing, and really, dealing with astrology, it's all metaphors, you know, you can believe in it literally as past lives, and you will likely still get the same benefit from approaching it. That way, though, personally, I argue, you know, you can get a little too hung up on, on looking at taking these ways of describing what's happening, to literally, you know, leaning on the metaphors is really what I like to do. But second stage, it gets gave up and I'm man, it's gonna bother me now. Don't go with your thought trust, and it might come back to me.

Tristan 42:36

i It's, it's helping me sort of clarify what I think about applying versus separating aspects listening to what you were saying Ada and how, you know, I tend to think of applying ones as more of sort of an exclamation point, it's not that the separating ones are not important or relevant. They're just as relevant. But it's sort of like this isn't necessarily something that is going to require a lot of conscious attention and effort. Whereas the applying one it's like this is, you know, maybe something new or something really demanding, that's just going to require, you're not going to be able to just sort of implicitly process this, you know, you can't just sleep on it, you've got to really like pay attention to it to work through it. Loved your like old married couple metaphor, Kyle, because I definitely feel like you know, the applying and like exact point of an aspect is sort of like the honeymoon phase of a relationship when it's at like peak intensity, and you only care about each other and the rest of the world doesn't exist anymore. And that is not sustainable. And then the separating aspect is like you're past the honeymoon phase, you've determined that you are in fact, a good match. And it's not just hormones, and you know, you aren't, you're able to pay attention to other things in your life again, and it's not sort of like completely taking you over the infatuation is everything it's like, I can balance my love for this person with you know, my other relationships and with my work and all of that other stuff. And it's a little more comfortable and easy, I sort of have a sense of like, we're in we've got a pattern, we have a sense of, you know, how we communicate, I can sort of predict what what will happen in the relationship a little better. So I don't have to think about it so much, you know, I can can kind of relax a little bit.

Kyle 44:27

It's like not the focus of the plot of your life anymore, you know, which is really where you want to get to in relationships, but it was actually what it was saying because you're looking at separated aspects. If you're looking at it in that sense of like past lives, you know, using that metaphor, you're carrying, you know, the baggage or the experiences of the past life into this life, and like what are you doing with it? And that's really what I like to do when I'm looking at a planet specifically like What's this planet doing? What was its last aspect or its last couple of aspects. And what's its next aspect? Like, what is it bringing to the this next relationship because that next relationship, that applying aspect is going to be more the center of the plot, it's gonna be more like the pivot point around which the story unfolds, maybe. But the separating aspects are super important, because that's what it has in the backpack. That's what it has to offer in this relationship that it's coming into.

Ada 45:26

It's the backstory and the the habits of thought, like, I love what you said about old very couples. And one of the things that made me think is that when you've been with somebody for a long time, it is increasingly difficult for them to surprise you whether you should be surprised. So one of the problems I think with with separating aspects are one of the challenges that people have with them is, you've been through this so many times that you just kind of are going through it by rote, and, you know, your your partner could maybe walk in wearing a Dr. Seuss hat, and you wouldn't notice because you've just gotten so used to your little routine, you don't see things that are changing. And so there's a sense in which you're more open to surprise with applying aspects. But separating aspects, you know, if you've kind of fallen into a routine and habits and expectations also have the ability to blow you out of the water because you just kind of go into it. I especially have this problem. I go into it with arrogance, like I know what this is about. And then all of a sudden, I get blindsided by Uranus or something.

Kyle 46:43

I totally, I have the same experience all the time to be humbled over and over again. But I had one more analogy. And it's a role playing analogy. Yeah, separating aspects are like eating and when you're creating your, your character, before you start the game, it's like your stats, right for that character. backstory that character. Yes, you know, and then the blinding aspects or like, the game, where you know, those stats interact with the dice rolls and the plot and everything. Oh, my goodness, I

Tristan 47:21

love that amazing swish. And, you know, for, again, you know, for anyone listening, who's new to astrology, these, you know, episodes are intended to be one on one. So if you're brand new to this, and you're going okay, I've heard all these great things about how to interpret applying versus separating aspects, how do I figure out if my aspects are applying or separating? I will also put a link in the show notes with instructions on how to figure this out, when you cast your chart on astro.com. There's a way to see whether they're applying or separating. And you don't have to do any math, because software just does it all. For us. It's great.

Kyle 48:07

Yeah, what I really like to do with that, not that we're gonna go on a deep dive on that. But if you get using software, just progress the chart like, days ahead and days behind, you know, maybe like a week or more, depending on the planet you're looking at. And actually see because sometimes, like the moon moves very fast, you know, and usually it's really easy to identify whether it's separating our planet, the moon, because no planet really gets up to moon speed. But sometimes planets are about to go retrograde and like it maybe looks like they're separating, but they're actually applying and that can be

Tristan 48:47

tricky. It's retrograde planets are tricky. Basta, they are Yeah. Yeah, if you have an option to animate a chart, if you use like Luna astrology, it has like, it's a subscription based website, but it allows you to just like flip backwards and forwards in time. And that's another easy way to see if aspects are applying or separating. It's a little cheaper than, you know, shelling out for the really expensive astrology software that lets you animate charts.

Kyle 49:19

Yeah, but whether you're doing it through, say astro.com That's what you're gonna recommend her.

Tristan 49:24

Yeah. astro.com will show you

Kyle 49:28

however you're doing it. i It's my homework for everybody at home, though, is to just look at take a you know, any planet in your chart, maybe the planet that rules your first house might be a good one. That's a good place to start and look at its last, the aspect that it's separating from what it's applying to. And that is likely going to tell you, you know, very important, let's say plot point of your life. You can get a lot from just that. And we recommend doing that.

Tristan 49:57

Yeah, that's a great idea. Rate exercise. Do we have anything else we wanted to say about? Orbs or applying and separating aspects before we actually just define the aspects that we're going to be talking about?

Kyle 50:13

Always, but we've said

Ada 50:18

this is a one on one class you say?

Tristan 50:23

We, if you want, like a really structured one, on the astrology podcast episode on aspects goes through it in a very structured way. Yeah, but it's like 50 words long, isn't it? It's pretty lousy podcast. I know. I mean,

Kyle 50:44

I call it a one on one series, but I think it is probably what ends up being like our response to all the information that we've encountered that's available, and like maybe what we thought was missing. So it's a little bit of one on one and a little bit of like, oh, maybe here's some stuff that that I thought needed to be addressed.

Tristan 51:03

Yes, some additional details that you don't always find in your basic 101 stuff that are important. Well, I'm gonna go ahead and just, you know, describe these five aspects that we've been sort of dancing around for a while now, the sort of easiest aspects to define and visualize, are the conjunction and the opposition. So a conjunction happens when two planets or points are in the same sign. And the sort of symbolism is that there is a blending, they've become one. They are sort of like a chimera. And an example of a conjunction that, you can, I was gonna say, like, very easily see, but I guess you technically can't is a new moon. If you go outside, on a clear night, when the moon is new, you can't see it. And that is because it is conjunct the sun, so it's as far below the horizon as it can possibly get there in the same place in the zodiac. So no moon, it's with the sun, you can't see it.

Kyle 52:07

The conjunction Actually, yes. Like they're not seeing each other. They're now with each other, you know, there as one, like, you don't like looking at your hands all the time. Or you might but like, it's more like that than like, yeah, talking to the guy. Three chairs to your your right or something.

Tristan 52:31

Yeah, that's a really good point is it is it's like when two planets are conjunct. They're like part of each other's body at that point. Whereas the opposition, which is also very easy to visualize, is when two planets or points are in opposite signs of the zodiac. So if the aspect is exact by degree, there'll be 180 degrees apart. So just polar opposite there, and sister signs, just staring at each other. And an easy way to remember the opposition is the full moon, when the moon is full, it's perfectly opposite the sun, and that's why it is fall. That's why you can see this nice big bright orb in the sky. And the opposition, I'll mention, there are planets associated with each of the aspects that helps you to understand what they mean. And how those planets were assigned to the aspects is a little more complicated than I think we should probably get into in this episode. And one of those things that really requires a visual to understand anyway, just listening to his talk, you're gonna be like, what the hell you're talking about, you need a diagram. So I'll try to always try to rustle something up for the show notes for that. But Anyway, point being that each aspects, not the conjunction, but the other four is associated with a planet. And that tells you something about what it means. So the opposition belongs to Saturn. It is the aspect of Saturn. And so you can see sort of meanings like delays, obstacles, confrontations that sort of slow you down or wear you down. That's the symbolism of the opposition. The square is planets that have the same mode, like two planets and fixed signs, but they don't share an element. If they're exact, there'll be 90 degrees apart. And that is another tense aspect. It belongs to Mars. So you get confrontation dynamic tension, it's very active. It's very hot and prickly kind of relationship. You know, planets are squaring each other. They're not having like pleasant small talk, they might be fighting. They might not be fighting, they might just be having like a really intense conversation about causation. Yeah, or Yeah, something very, or something very controversial and very dynamic

Kyle 54:56

energy exchange going on, depending on the planet. involved.

Tristan 55:00

And then you've got the soft aspects the Trine, which belongs to Jupiter. And that is, you know, as I've described at length when two planets or points are in the same sign of the zodiac, there'll be about 90 degrees apart. And that's a nice, easy, harmonious aspect, you know, a little bit more like pleasant small talk than the square. And the sextile is the aspect that belongs to Venus. And it occurs when planets are the same polarity. They're not when they're not opposing each other, but they're in the same polarity. So air signs And fire signs, or earth signs of water signs will sextile each other. And that's another kind of nice, harmonious aspect.

Kyle 55:43

The way that the signs in those aspects will interact with each other is really, really useful in interpreting them. And we'll get into that more, I think, as we're interpreting the aspects individually. But yeah, I, I wish they were done at this point. They're not yet. But so it'd be a great opportunity to plug some reference material that I'm in the process of creating. And, like we have some really nice, like thema Mundi posters. So basically, all this shit that we talked about, and the jargon that we use is going to be available for you. And like a really easy to I read sort of like just like a poster on your wall. And you're like, Oh, I know all of astrology because I have this on my warm. You'll see, you all see, one day

Tristan 56:36

I'm looking forward to I will finally know astrology. It will just me I'll never have to study again.

Kyle 56:46

Yeah, I mean, because I want to talk about because the theme of Monday will tell you so much. And you can break it down into like so many, like different ways, but it's something relevant, and maybe looking at the theme of Monday, which will include in the show notes will will tell you is that like the county said that the opposition is of the nature of Saturn, or the trends of the nature of Jupiter, squares of the nature of Mars and the sextile to the nature of Venus. For reasons that are very well represented by right thema Mundi?

Tristan 57:18

Yeah, you gotta you've really got to visualize that you got to overlay the planets and their rulership on Monday. And then you will understand based on their relationships with the sun and moon, when you look at it, you'll be like, Oh, that's why the squares is Mars's, and, etc.

Kyle 57:33

Why you need a really cool poster so that you can stare at it until it lives in your mind. And then then you can play with it. For all I can your mind palace.

Ada 57:46

Sima de is such a great story. I love the idea that we even mythologically have the birth chart for the beginning of the world. I think

Tristan 57:57

it is a beaut and it's a cancer rising, which is perfect.

Kyle 58:02

Makes makes me feel really cool. But yeah, it totally makes sense that the universe can surprising somebody so many ways, for good and bad.

Tristan 58:12

That's all good. Cancer is only good. There's nothing nothing bad. There's nothing bad about cancer rising, squishy, cuddly

Kyle 58:18

teddy bears. Exactly. Well, with that, do we want to jump in and actually start talking about these aspects? So let's do it. All right. So I forget our justification for this, but we're gonna start with the sextile. No, yeah, you describe it, you're you have I mean, no, I remember the reason was good. I just don't remember what it was.

Tristan 58:50

I mean, we are kind of arbitrarily starting with the sextile. There isn't a rational, logical reason for beginning at the sextile in particular, but the way we're grouping the aspects together, there is some method behind it. So we're going to start with the two soft aspects, the sextile, and then the Trine the aspects that are generally considered to be harmonious and supportive. Because although they both represent similar things, there are some differences between them. So if we kind of put them together, it's a bit of an opportunity to contrast the difference between the Trine and the sextile. And then the same with the square in the opposition, the two hard aspects. So that's where we'll start. We'll start off with the sextile and then jump into the Trine and then maybe chat a bit about what makes these two aspects distinct.

Kyle 59:44

I feel good about starting with the sextile because it is just such an underrated aspect. Oh, yeah, I agree. Oh, it's like half a train. Right. So like, almost as good as a train but not really.

Ada 59:57

I totally disagree with the standard explanation that, uh, that a sextile is weaker than a try and like, in my experience, it's a very exciting aspect the the planets have this energy between them that's like the chatard

Kyle 1:00:13

Yeah, I, you know, astrology is a art of analogies, right and comparing things and making things like other things. And I always liked the idea of the sextile being of the nature of Venus, right? Because that tells you so much about the sextile. It's, it's harmonizing things, it's bringing things together, and sextiles to me, like it's more of a day to day sort of experience, I find the sextile sort of like day to day cooperation, I think on our episode, about the difference between trines and sextiles. We were talking about sextiles, being more of like a one on one relationship, while trines tend to indicate like sometimes it can kind of indicate the privilege just like sort of fitting into your society fitting into your, your culture, the sorts of leg ups, legs, the boosts you get in life, due to just the nature of your your circumstances, all sextiles you you sort of work with a little more you engaged with, but we'll keep it focused on the sextile. But yeah, what are you gonna start with the sextile,

Tristan 1:01:19

I definitely lean on it being the aspect of Venus quite a bit, I find the planetary associations really helpful. Or the sextile being of the nature of Venus, I think gives it a sort of sense of creativity. It's creating harmony and unity among people or parts, or situations that are different from each other in some way. So sort of like, when a band plays together, each member is playing a different instrument, they each have unique sound, they each have a unique skill set that they bring. But when you put them all together, you get something that is cohesive and harmonious and often greater than what any one of those individual people could do alone. So with the sextile, you get that sense of strength in togetherness of being able to work towards super ordinate goals, goals that cannot be achieved without cooperation. And something about those kinds of goals is that they bring people together who are very different from one another. And I think that's sort of the power of the sextile is, you can have two planets that are fairly different from each other. But the sextile creates sort of like a common goal that the two of them share. And so even though there are these differences, there's enough similarity between them that they're able to sort of come together and those differences actually become a strength, because each one makes up for something that the other lacks. And so they're able, like I said, to do more than they could alone. So that's sort of my my take on the nature of the sextile

Kyle 1:02:57

read of component is really important with the sextile, because you get that Venus quality, but you have to separate two different elements that generally get along well together, you know, most sextiles can be either fire and air or earth and water. But you also have sort of two different modalities. And this is a theme with all the soft aspects, both of the soft aspects is that they're taking place between compatible elements, but different modalities. Right. So the modality exchange is generally a positive thing, you know, having more than one modality involved in a dynamic, it's like having two people doing different jobs that are related to the same task, you know, as opposed to both of you trying to do the same thing in a different way. And sort of bumping into each other and, and maybe having to, to butt heads a bit over, you know, who's how we're going to do this thing. The sextile is very, it's very creative, and it requires synthesis. Like it requires a sort of, like more active engagement, think because it's like you're trying to create something with two different elements. You're trying to create something with, say earth and water. And that creative interaction ends up making something new making something that is not entirely earth or water that's making something like mud, or, or making the Earth more fertile. Right. Yeah, that combination in synthesis between two different things. It's, you know, it's very Venus. It's very art. I'm thinking of a reading I did recently and they had a sextile between Mercury and Venus. Leave Mercury's in Pisces and Venus was in Capricorn. And they are a designer. Right? Of course, of course your designer. Makes sense. I love

Ada 1:04:59

that word. Talking about this in terms of Venus. Because when I when I think about Venus, the first word that comes to mind is attraction. And yeah, in traditional astrology planets are exist in in opposite pairs of opposites and to create contrast, and Venus exists in the the opposite of merging and separating with Mars, Venus is about merging and Mars is about separating. And so like, I think that the, the fundamental energy underlying sextiles is desire. And, but it is a desire that can never resolve because they have the the same underlying polarity. So they have enough in common that they are attracted to each other. But they're so different, that they're never going to be able to fully merge. And so there's a situation where it's mutual attraction that just grows and grows and grows, and you're always finding a different angle, a different thing that you, you know, these two planets are constantly finding different things that they love about each other. And it's like, there are surprises around every corner, but it's like, you know, you round the corner and it's like, oh, a puppy. Oh, birthday cake. Like, it's just a never ending series of delights and joys.

Kyle 1:06:23

I like that a lot. It's, it's because they're, they're separate, right? I was just thinking, like, you know, say you have a podcast about astrology. Right? And you meet someone else who has a podcast about astrology. It's like, oh, yeah, we can work together. And we can, you know, both come on each other's shows and do astrology together. Right? Awesome. More astrology. More astrology. We love astrology. Right? Yeah, but sextile is a little more like meeting somebody who has, say, a podcast about history, or another topic, but I'm gonna go with history because I like history. And there are two different topics. But there's a natural compatibility with history. And, you know, bring those two hosts together, they are different hosts, who are doing different things, but you combine them and you create something a synthesis that is, you know, new, like you could a different way of, of reviewing history or understanding history by using astrology for context, or, yeah, but then there's like a sort of an excitement there. Because like, Oh, you're doing something that's different from what I do. But I find what you do so interesting, and I, you know, I want to be like you when I grow up.

Tristan 1:07:37

That's a really, really, really good analogy, I think of the two different podcasts where the podcast is sort of like the polarity being shared in common, but you don't have a mode or an element in common. So when you come together, you create something that is sort of a blend of what both of you do, it's still a podcast, but you're sort of bringing these two very different genres together, and sort of finding the common ground between them. sextiles, I think, are very good for pattern matching. They're good for finding the patterns and things and finding the common ground and things. And that can be really helpful when you have planets that rep represent very different themes. When there's a sextile. Between them, it's like, oh, the way you do things is very unusual, but I get it. And I can see ways that I can integrate the way you do things into the way I do things. And again, it's like all acts of creativity, you're bringing, you know, like a paintbrush and a canvas. And, you know, like the one planet is the paintbrush, the other planet is the canvas and when the sextile happens, you end up with painting.

Ada 1:08:55

Yeah, it's not our activity.

Kyle 1:08:57

Yeah, it's, it's not like a stretch, to combine things that are sextile with each other. Granted, you know, the two planets in question. They there can be tension between two planets in a sextile depending on on those planets and maybe the condition or what sign they're in, you know, so, I guess when interpreting a sextile or any aspect, like start with the planets separately, like try to get a sense of what they are doing. And they're sort of struggles and see opposite of a struggle, their successes, I guess, certain, you know, the things that will tend to come more easily to those planets in the sign and maybe what their challenges are and then look at the other one and then see how those two blend or, or how you know, they might if they were podcasters, and they were both hosting podcasts, how would their two podcasts combined or You know, insert analogy here. But sometimes they can, they can be harder to get off the ground. Just because it's a sextile doesn't mean it's super easy. And just because it's a sextile doesn't mean it's always that sort of collaboration is always creating lovely paintings and

Tristan 1:10:20

artists true. They could be collaborating on making something very nasty. Oh, yeah, for sure. You know, could be like, if you've got like Mars and Saturn and a sextile. You know, one is the musician, and the other is the director of a horror movie. You know, they have these two different skill sets. One's a composer, the other is a director, but they can come together and make this movie, but it's also, you know, a terrifying horror show. Yeah,

Ada 1:10:48

they could come together to make a bomb in the basement. Oh, yeah.

Kyle 1:10:53

Exactly. Actually. Oh, man. I'm just remembering. One of the sextile examples that I want had speaking of people who make bombs.

Tristan 1:11:04

Oh, God, here comes on a Kyle's patented example. Sure. Yeah. So

Kyle 1:11:10

turning reasonable.

Tristan 1:11:14

Before you jump into your example, we wanted to use some actual charts as examples to illustrate the meaning of these aspects. So if you want to follow along and look at these charts, I'll have a link in the show notes. That's just a link because there will be a lot of charts. So it's just one link to a Google Doc and all of the charts will be contained in that link. So feel free to click that and follow along. Yeah.

Ada 1:11:39

I love how organized you are.

Tristan 1:11:42

I do my best.

Kyle 1:11:44

Yeah. I want to look up this example real quick. I have a couple others but Do either of you have just like a really juicy sextile that you're trying to share and talk about?

Ada 1:12:01

I would love to talk about Kim Kardashian.

Tristan 1:12:04

You would also love for you to talk about Kim Kardashian.

Ada 1:12:09

So she has a really fascinating sextile between Venus and Mercury she's got Venus at 19 degrees of Virgo and Mercury at 19 degrees of Scorpio. And so you can put those together on a superficial level and just you know you have beautiful communication. And like that is definitely something that she wants to project into the world. I mean she that Venus is in the 10th hole sign house and the the mercury is in the 12th hole sign house and so the Venus is very much wanting to drive in that situation. But the bringing together the signs the the Virgo and the Scorpio you you get this Venus that is not especially comfortable. and is and is pretty picky. And you've got this mercury that has like this. This kind of dark edge and you can see it in her branding. Like she's not like lace and pastels like she's got she wears a lot of black. It's very sleek. It's she's got this intensity about her her brand and her persona. And her her way of communicating that she is beautiful is very, like precise and scripted. And like I'm not going to let you see under the surface any more than I want to like I'm very much in control of my messaging in this situation. And like a classic example of this. Like, I don't watch her reality TV. So I don't know if like Keeping Up With The Kardashians or whatever it is like this. But during her appearance on Saturday night, I have her Venus Mercury sextile was very, very much showing itself like she had a script. She was sitting there and she was reading the script and it was like, I am very much in control of the situation you are seeing exactly what I want you to see. And no more and no less and like every hair was perfectly in place. Like there there were no malfunctions going on anywhere and it was almost like this. Even Even though Scorpio is a water sign there was almost this robotic quality to it because it was just so perfect. It almost fell into the uncanny valley.

Kyle 1:14:40

I'm just like imagining not that I've watched a ton of of Keeping Up With The Kardashians, but I'm just I can see him Kardashians like the look. The looks on her face that she makes some times where she should like look at somebody and just it's like she doesn't have to say it. But you you must when you're We're in the presence of that look being looked at like that, like know that you're being like, dissected, I don't know more like you're being like you recognize maybe that what you're doing is stupid or in poor taste. I like the just the very refined and maybe very picky taste. That's like a really good example is Venus in Virgo, I mean, usually is very constructive, it's kind of constructive work is that, that perfectionism that creating something really beautiful, very refined. But then with mercury and Scorpio together so like, I always think with Mercury in Scorpio is like this sort of very pitted penetrating kind of intellect. So we know a lot of mercury ins and Scorpios is one of my favorite Mercury's there's like a way that they're the words been just like the intellect is very penetrating. The way that they communicate even can be very sharp, but like, like low key sharp, like, like sliding a knife underneath your arm or sort of sharp, I don't know, like, it's like you don't see it coming. And you don't necessarily know that you're getting stabbed until you feel it.

Tristan 1:16:16

This is a great example. It's a really, really close sextile. They're both at 19 degrees. And I'm thinking about one of the common themes that both Scorpio and Virgo share is control. And I kept hearing you use the word scripted Aida when you were talking about her. And I feel like that's such a good word for the whole setup that these two planets are in with Venus right on the midheaven in the 10th house in this very public place. And being in this sextile with mercury. And both in signs that have a lot to do with control were one thing that these two planets can agree on for sure, is that whatever is down there in the 12th house, the public doesn't need to know about it. And whatever the public needs to know, is only what we want them to know. So I feel like mercury and Virgo or mercury and Scorpio and Venus and Virgo together, sort of collaborating on Kim Kardashian, his public image are going to be really good at coming up with here are the exact right things to stay, here is the exact right thing to wear, to create exactly the kind of impression you want. And to get exactly the kind of reaction from the public, you would like to get

Kyle 1:17:35

really interesting about that sextile to is that with Venus in the 10th house, and the mercury in the 12th it from like watch the show, it's, you know, it's like having your entire life basically be a TV show least like the the impression that I get, it's like everything that they do on on a day to day basis, or it feels like that. And it's like a lot of the drama, maybe even to between them. That is being sort of put up on display. And in my mind that said that seems like a very vulnerable position to be in, right. It's like your 12th house matters, like your private affairs, or your private drama, sort of being put up on display. But like you guys were saying it's like it's very controlled, really. Like it's like, she's kind of in control of what we're actually seeing on that reality show. To a large degree, I would assume.

Tristan 1:18:28

Yeah, it's interesting having that relationship between the 12th house and the 10th house because the whole point of a reality show is there's a certain voyeurism, we want to see celebrities at their worst, we want to see them. Having temper tantrums, we want to see them being flawed. The you know, there's this sort of voyeuristic desire to see the mess and chaos of other people's lives, especially people who we think of as very successful. And reality TV is sort of like indulging that desire a little bit where, you know, it's like we you know, we get to see people these, you know, big, bright, successful people sort of at their lowest and their pettiness, which is very sort of 12th house. It's all this stuff that you don't necessarily want people to see. But it's it's kind of an illusion, because at the end of the day reality shows are still edited. I don't know how unscripted they are to begin with. I've never been on the set of one so I don't know, but it is it's sort of like Kim Kardashian is giving you this feeling that you're like getting this inside look at the most private, messy aspects of her life, but really, she is the one pulling the strings.

Ada 1:19:45

And if it's going to be a mess, it's going to be a beautiful mess.

Tristan 1:19:48

Exactly.

Kyle 1:19:51

Artfully messy. I think that's really the appeal of the show. From what I understand. Yeah, I honestly want to say more on Kim Kardashian I have what ends up being a totally impromptu sextile. And actually, there's two sextiles. involved, do it because you ate ahead to say, you know, you could make a bomb with the sextile. I will demonstrate this,

Tristan 1:20:23

you can make a reality TV show with a sex towel or you can make a bomb. There's no limit to what you can do with sextiles tell you that sex tiles are a weak aspect. I think another sort of popular narrative is that they require a lot of effort. Like you can get stuff done with this textile, but it requires a ton of effort. And like to a degree,

Kyle 1:20:46

I get it, like enjoyable effort,

Tristan 1:20:48

though. But like, yeah, it's like, if you're sitting down and writing a song like yeah, that's not necessarily effortless, but it's pleasurable. Like you said, Kyle, it's not it's not work like a sextile isn't work. I think that's where the confusion comes in. Where when you say, oh, a sextile requires more effort than a try and you'll get the reward, but you need to put in the work. It's not really work. It's enjoyable time and energy expended. But it's not work any more than like, if you if your passion is cooking. And you know, you love cooking more than anything, and you make your favorite dish that doesn't feel like work. It just feels nice, and you get the nice reward at the end. So I think that's more what a sextile is like. And I guess if you're what you really enjoy doing is making bombs, then Kyle's sextiles will be relevant here.

Kyle 1:21:41

Yeah, it looks like work to other people. But you it's just having a good time. Yeah, so I have the chart here. Can you guys see my screen figured out? Yes. Because I Yeah, I'm just pulling this off of Astro seek because I didn't have a pre loaded but I have a Ted Kaczynski chart. And there's actually two different birth times that go around for him. And I kind of lean on this one, I sort of prefer it. But you'll see two rather close sextiles in his chart, because we have Leo rising. And he's got quite a Gemini stellium, sun, Saturn, Uranus, and Mercury and Jupiter. There, Venus in Aries, in the ninth house, Mars and cancer in the 12th house, and the moon and Leo in the first house. But the first sextile that talks about is that you have the sextile between Venus in Aries and Mercury in Gemini. And Ted Kaczynski was that he was very super, like super educated. Dude, he was a teacher for a long time. He's a professor in academia. Actually, you read the whole thing about tickets and ski recently, Tristan, right?

Tristan 1:22:49

I haven't got Yeah, he was a Harvard student. And he coincidentally ended up in an experiment. And I'm forgetting the name of the researcher offhand. Who did a very unethical study on stress, where he used undergrads at Harvard as his test subjects, and essentially just like subjected them to a whole bunch of psychological torture basically, like, got to know enough about them to be able to make sort of really personal verbal attacks on them and stuff like that. And the whole study was supposed to be examining the effects of stress on people just so happened that Ted Kaczynski was one of those undergrads in that experiment. And he harbored a serious grudge against academics who were often the targets of his attacks. Yeah, to say that that study was to blame for what he ended up doing. Obviously, this seed, you know, the, the potential was already there long before that happened, but certainly not a good one, not the person that you want in that kind of study. Not the kind of study you want to be doing at all. Yeah.

Kyle 1:24:04

Yeah, I mean, crazy, because it well, I don't want to dive too much into other components of the chart, though, it's always gonna be important when you're interpreting an aspect. It's like, you gotta look at in the context of everything else, of course, but you have Venus in Aries there in the ninth house, on its own looks like, you know, could be a difficult experience in the world of education. But also, I mean, it's been as to so I mean, it's might point to just something generally, some level of proficiency or some level of having a significant the ninth house, you know, might indicate being educated, several indicators, but with Mars in Cancer in the 12th house, could be an indicator of like a falling out with, we'll say, in this case, the academic life, right. But then when you have that sextile with Mercury in Gemini, which Mercury in Gemini on its own, and this is just Mercury To which I always want to know what else is relating to Mercury, because mercury is just sort of game for whatever you hand to it like, especially in Mercury in Gemini, which is just curious about everything and just interested in stuff. It'll just pick up what's around and be like, oh, what can I do with this? What's what's, what happens when I put, you know, glycerin and kitty cats together? I don't know like a nitroglycerin, it's sort of down whatever it's been handed to with Venus in Aries and that sextile it's like, a love of actually more literal, a love of bombs, a love of explosions of love of things that go boom, you know, with Venus in Aries, sometimes sloth different things that can describe but finding beauty in destruction will say, and I know a lot of what motivated his crimes, which were predominantly, especially early on just mailing bombs to people, very creatively, very creative, creatively designed bombs. You get Venus ruling the third house from the ninth house. So I would look at third house, you know, for mail, like third house stuff that you get every day sort of daily transit, daily communications, mail, Postal Service, and then mercury in the 11th house. It was sort of aimed at. Man, it's been a while since I've read about tickers. insky. But he had a he was what do you call that when they hate technology, not a troglodyte. a Luddite? Yeah, like hated technology. Which is funny because he has Uranus in the Sun conjunct, but he had this sort of hate of technology. But now you get this this sense that like there's some ideology, ideological motivation for what he's doing. Like maybe he likes things going, boom, but he also had this sort of agenda around, I kind of just wanted to like, tear down technology. I wish I remembered now, I don't want to get

Tristan 1:27:05

a whole an entire manifesto, right when NFS then he considered himself as social revolutionary.

Kyle 1:27:12

Thank you,

Tristan 1:27:13

thank you saw the damage that we were doing to ourselves in the environment through technology and the misapplication of science and felt like there's, there's nothing that can be done other than to try to destroy it.

Kyle 1:27:33

Once again, interesting, you save the day. That's what I need to hear is, yeah, it was one secret this like sort of social revolution is like sort of anti anti technology, anti society really, which is very, very 11th House kind of topic. You also get Mercury sextile the moon very, very closely. And while there's a couple of ways that you can look at that, the one that's popping out to me is that it's the ruler of the 12th house, it's sort of ruling the topic of maybe getting yourself into trouble or, or the just the general undoing of things. It's not always like you that you're undoing, but there's like a deconstruction that goes on in the 12 house and sort of wanting to deconstruct society, deconstruct the things that society represents things that especially with the sun ruling the first house, you know, the moon is sort of carrying the topic of what the Sun is doing in the 11th house. So it's you know, there's a deconstruction going on with what society already said it that's it so I got any thoughts you guys

Ada 1:28:45

on on the subject of explosions, I cannot stop looking at that. Very close Saturn, sun, Uranus stellium he's got a huge stellium in in Gemini, but those planets are particularly close together. And they are also sextile Pluto. And when I see Saturn, Uranus and the sun together, I think of an explosion happening in a very small contained space like an atomic bomb golf going off in a concrete closet or a package blowing up. Yeah, and it's almost like that Pluto in Leo deep wound to the need for approval. And the psychological manipulation of that professor was the spark that set off the the explosion in the very small space that just the intensity of it was just extraordinary and and like you said, you know, personal responsibility is a thing and you know that experiments should absolutely not have been done. But, you know, just because somebody goes through something like that with the chart that they have doesn't mean that they're going to become, you know, escaped. But on the other hand, you can see how there is a place in his chart where there's like a hairline fracture. And if you put any kind of pressure on it, it's going to break somehow. And that psychological manipulation, triggering that Pluto when that Pluto was in a position where it very much wanted to explode it just yeah, see how things were so tragic.

Kyle 1:30:41

Yeah, it's interesting, when you think about like, the Pluto. Two, it's sort of like, just like the universe is like adding things to the sun. And it's like a sextile between like the sun and Pluto, Saturn, it's like, cooperative, but like delivering something kind of like participating in a study that doesn't go so well. Or that has, you know, ends up being coercive or manipulative in some way. But then you need to get to point to is like, it's you can see like, where there could be a fracture or like stress, but it's like, overall not, it's not the worst chart I've ever seen by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, like the sun Saturn conjunction, well, I would say, you know, potential difficulties there. Especially Uranus, the sun, and mercury, Saturn, like all basically within a degree of each other. Think like a very, like a brilliant, potentially very disciplined academic mind in Gemini. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And he was really smart dude, a lot of potential that unfortunately, got channeled in the wrong direction. But yeah, you can also get that sort of that sense of social responsibility even to mean so much in the 11th house. But Saturn two will sort of add that like layer of wanting to do things on principle, right. And he had these principles. Be very principle, dude, they're just ended up being the wrong principles. Right? Yeah. And

Tristan 1:32:05

I wonder if it wasn't even so much an issue of principles, because if you look at his manifesto, it's not like all of his ideas were bad, and a lot of his criticisms of society and of our misuse of technology. A lot of those criticisms were very fair. Obviously, his methods were terribly wrong, but I'm looking at that very, very close sextile between Mercury and the moon. Mercury is at 22 degrees of Gemini, the Moon is at 22 degrees of Leo. And the moon represents the common people. So there's this sort of, you know, the the intelligence and critical thinking capacity of mercury is sort of working together with the moon's concern for the common people for average, everyday people who are being harmed by what people in power are doing.

Kyle 1:33:02

Well, yeah, absolutely. I feel like your was a really good points and I feel like I want to like, dive headfirst into tech since he's charts. There's a lot we could talk about here. But I know we wanted to get some other examples in right. We want to do an episode on texting Taxanes chart.

Ada 1:33:24

Oh, I could talk about this chart all day.

Kyle 1:33:26

It's fascinating. Well, I

Ada 1:33:29

mean, he and I are both Leo rising. So clearly. It's fascinating.

Kyle 1:33:33

Of course, yeah. Just the most interesting people. They mean, they usually they usually are very interesting. I think I wanted to say one thing, though, is that you kind of get with Ted Kaczynski. There's like a sort of ideological principal component to what he's doing. But there's kind of a bit of a an ego that has not met the needs met with the Sun conjunct Saturn, good for a lot of things, but maybe not for for Leo rising. Maybe a little, little hard on the ego. Oh, absolutely. But yeah, so I have other examples, you guys, you probably have an example or interesting to even get.

Tristan 1:34:13

I do I have one example. And I feel very self conscious that my two examples for soft aspects come from my own personal life. You have a really good one. Well, I just I haven't really, I have a very close sextile in my chart. And obviously comparing it back home. Yeah, so the examples I have for Trine and sextile are both from my own personal life, but the rest of the examples that I have for all the other aspects are not their celebrity charts, but my sextile example comes from my own chart. I have mercury, one degree 16 minutes of Aries in the 10th house, and I have Venus one degree 51 Minutes of Gemini in the 12th house. And the reason that I wanted to use my own chart as an example is that I'm so tired of people saying that sextiles are weak or require a bunch of work. I think the reason that I get so defensive of sextiles is also that like, there's a lot of misogyny and systems, a cult systems that we use that, you know, trace their lineage back to ancient Greece and medieval Europe and Renaissance Europe and all that sort of misogyny leaks into this stuff. And the sextile being the aspect of Venus. I just I don't think that Venus is weaker than Jupiter. And I don't think that her aspects would be weaker than Jupiter's aspects. I think that, you know, Venus is like one of the few feminine faces of astrology, and I don't like her aspect getting second place, I don't think that makes sense. So this is this is the hill that I will die on. The sextiles are great.

Kyle 1:36:12

Mercury in Aries, sextile Venus, like wanting to defend Venus with that mercury in Aries.

Tristan 1:36:19

Like don't don't underestimate Venus do not sleep on sextiles. And so I wanted to use this one as an example, because I have Venus in the 12th. House, Natalie. And in traditional astrology, if a planet is in the 12th house, it doesn't have a ton of agency. It doesn't have it doesn't tend to be extremely visible in a person's outer life. That's sort of traditional interpretation that being in the 12th house weakens a planet or obscures that planet in some way. And that never made sense to me looking at my own chart, because I am a visual artist, I went to art school, I was an art nerd in high school, I've always been a writer, that was my ambition as a child was to be a novelist. And I switch to visual art. And what I'm focusing on presently, is visual art for the most part. So there has been no point in my life, when I haven't been either sharing drawings, or mixed media work or writing of some kind. With the public, none of that stuff is at all concealed about me. And while I don't think that I'm like a brilliant artist, by any stretch of the imagination, I'm not bad. You know, it's, it's not like, I'm terrible at it or anything like that. So it's just, it didn't make a ton of sense to me for like, Venus is the planet that is associated with the creative arts that is associated with this, that x that is associated with drawing and painting. Why would an artist have been stashed away in the 12. But there is another interpretive principle that if a planet is in a house, like the 12, but it's very closely configured to the midheaven, or it's very closely configured to a planet that say, in the 10th house, so the first house, that planet kind of brings the other planet up out of the 12th house, and into more public view. So I have mercury, all the way at the top of the sky up in the 10th house making this really close applying sextile with Venus. And I think it's an example of how a planet that is, in a very public part of the chart can actually, via a sextile, kind of reach into the more concealed parts of the chart and bring what is in there sort of out into the light and into public view.

Kyle 1:38:46

Absolutely. And also see how, I don't know, I was just thinking about how modest you were there, like I'm not, I'm not not bad, or, like you're good at it, right? But there's like a modesty there with just think about how Mercury's receiving Venus as its as its ruler in Gemini. But that reception is sort of with like Venus is maybe still a little reluctant to come out sometimes like fool shy, though, because it's Aries stuff where it's like a little uncomfortable. Like finding that it's not always like the sextile that like it maybe comes easier in private but like maybe sharing stuff with the world. I know you've you've expressed to me like some hesitancy sometimes we're feeling shyness about like, not that you don't do it. It's just like a reticence maybe.

Tristan 1:39:41

Yeah, that I mean, the shyness is definitely there. But I still, you know, I think it's kind of a testament to sextiles that I do anyway, you know, this stuff, the stuff that's in the 12th house kind of comes out. Yeah. And a lot of the art that I've done is very welfarist it's very much about bringing those things memes out into the open. I think I've talked on a previous episode about the obsession that I have with themes of sacrifice and being at peace with suffering and art both in the art that I make and in the art that I enjoy. Yeah, I remember talking about one of my favorite works of art is the sculpture that depicts the ecstasy of Saint Teresa, where she had this vision of an angel driving a spear into her heart repeatedly. And she felt like both this intense suffering during this vision, but also the most profound ecstasy and sense of union with the divine, and I just, I ate that shit up. I love that kind of stuff. So and that feels very, like how do you deal with the 12th house to deal with the 12th house you need, you need a center, you need a center that you can enter into where you have unconditional peace, where it doesn't matter what external circumstances are happening, you are still able to access that place of peace. So I think that theme being really present in the art I consume and the art I make is maybe an example of the 10th house and the 12th house, working together in the sort of creative and artistic way. And you wouldn't necessarily expect those two things to blend. But there they are able to to blend together through the medium of art. And I think it's something that you see in a lot of artists works. And a lot of poetry is sort of being able to reach into the more challenging aspects of human experience, and create something that's meaningful and beautiful. And that helps us to cope. It helps us to process really difficult stuff. You know, when you watch a sad movie, it helps you process feelings of grief, when you watch a horror movie, it helps you to process feelings of fear and sort of a safe space. It's a way of confronting those 12 House realities in a way that allows us to make meaning out of them and sort of make peace with them. In a sense, I guess,

Ada 1:42:06

so hard for me to not pull in your Chiron in the 12th as you're talking about this, but I'm not going to do it.

Tristan 1:42:13

I know this is the one problem with using charts as examples, because you're trying to just focus in on one aspect. But there's so much else going on. Like because Minsky's chart, and Kardashians chart, there's a lot of fascinating stuff you can talk about in both of those. Yeah.

Kyle 1:42:29

Thank you for reminding me what one of the original intentions of how we wanted to approach this, which was talking about the like aspects, getting good examples of aspects between different houses, and signs and stuff. And one of the things that we're talking about that kind of got me thinking about why those sextiles maybe you get like the eighth and 12th, house sextile, the 10th house. And those that 10th House ends up, like you were mentioning, when you have a nice aspect between the 10th house when in the 10th house or like the midheaven sort of helps give planets in those houses and anchor, right. And one of the things with the 12th house, it's actually like kind of drawing on, like the traditional interpretation, which was this idea that actually sometimes abduction was referred to right ancients, it's the 12th house because the planet is being carried away from the ascendant from the rising. And time and time again, 12th house planets show up to me, it's like getting carried away with stuff getting carried away with what that planets doing. But one of the ways that that can work out more favorably is it has a sextile, say, with the 10th house is it's like getting that getting carried away as with your work or something that you, you know, serves your work, something that serves what you do, but also being anchored in something that you can see. So like, maybe having access to the off switch, right when when you need it when you need when you realize when you remember that you have a body and it needs to be fed been drawing for 12 hours or something.

Tristan 1:44:02

Yeah, that went well. And I mean, that's something I can personally relate to. Because when I get into a creative headspace, it's very hard to remember that I need to get up and move around. Because sitting for eight and a half hours straight is really bad for you that I need to eat. And I think that can be part of the relationship between the 12th. And the 10th house in general, is, you know, the 12th house is where we lose ourselves and the 10th house is work and legacy and all that stuff. And that is a place where people can lose themselves and also that like I think about people who are like really, really driven. And one of the chart examples I'm going to use is actually an example of someone who is very driven and probably sacrificed a lot of other aspects of his life in order to pursue those drives. But in the 10th house, we're very driven in the 12th house, we make sacrifices and we isolate ourselves and people who accomplish incredible things often had to sacrifice You know, having a social life having a happy relationship, having a family having balance in their lives, you know, sort of undoing yourself, you know, not not sleeping like was it Newton who kept the most ridiculous hours and hardly slept, and he was like a polyphasic sleep or something. And I'd like everything else, you know, my pursuit of natural philosophy is more important than anything else. And all of the other aspects of my life can, you know, be put on the backburner for the sake of this cause I'm really driven towards. So that's like, you know, that relationship between the 10th and the 12th. Maybe where we undo ourselves a little bit in pursuit of our 10th House goals.

Ada 1:45:41

I think that it's really interesting that you've got Venus in Gemini in the 12th. Because, you know, we were talking earlier about how Venus is a relational quality, or maybe I was thinking about it, and we weren't actually talking about it. But Venus, Venus needs to relate. And the 12th house is about being by yourself, and Gemini needs to communicate. And the 12th house is about silence. And so it's like, you've got, I get this mental image of mercury holding down a hand like you don't really belong here. Let me let me pull you up like you were saying before, because like, Venus in Gemini is not naturally a place where Venus is particularly uncomfortable, like, Venus doesn't have a ton of dignity, there but doesn't have the ability either. Putting it in, in the 12th house, makes it rather uncomfortable just because of its significations in the significations of Gemini and so it's almost like I imagined Venus looking at Mercury and being like, Oh, thank goodness, my Savior.

Tristan 1:46:46

Mercury is the extroverted friend who's kind of pulling, I think if if you're looking at your own chart, and you've got you know, a planet in the 10th, in a sextile, with a planet in the 12th, or the eighth, that planet is the extroverted friends to your planet in the 12th of the eighth, that's kind of like, you know, you're hanging out by the wall, not talking to anybody, I know that you're really into stamp collecting, and there's somebody here who's also really into stamp collecting, and they have these really rare stamps that you're absolutely going to want to hear about. So I'm going to introduce you to them, and that's the planet in your 10th house is doing for those planets in the eighth and 12th, it's like, I'm gonna go introduce you to the person you have something in common with, and you're gonna have something to do at this party, you can peel your back off of the wall and come and join.

Ada 1:47:36

I love that.

Kyle 1:47:37

All right, I'm just gonna say final thing, maybe about just planets in the 12th house in general, is that they don't always show up as being not visible, they're often not only visible, but doing a lot of things that are just the kind of things that are like it not being about you or maybe not in your personal interest, which isn't always negative. Sometimes it can work against you. Sometimes it's just working for others, you know.

Tristan 1:48:06

And I think I liked that you brought in aspects between houses, because I think those can be really good illustrations of what the aspects mean. And I think it's relevant to the point you just made. The eighth and the 12 houses form a sextile with the 10th house. And at first that seems counterintuitive. Why would there be this positive, constructive, collaborative, harmonious relationship between the eighth house and the 10th House or the 12th house and the 10th house. And I think it comes down to this stuff that's in the eighth and the 12th house is difficult. And something that makes difficult things more manageable is when you're able to find a sense of purpose connected to them. And the eighth and the 12th. Also, you know, don't just have to do with your own suffering and your own challenges they have to do with the suffering and challenges of other people like Kyle was saying they have to do service. So you know, like, a lot of professions are based on doing stuff that other people don't want to do because it's unpleasant, or helping people deal with unpleasant stuff, like how many professions are plumbing, psychotherapy, medicine. So many professions are about repairing things that are broken, or taking out garbage, whether metaphorically or literally. And so the 10th house is actually sort of like giving things in the 12th on the eighth the purpose and also like helping people who are sort of stuck in those places to navigate being in those places. You can, you know, be a paramedic and you're dealing with eighth and 12th house stuff all the time but you're also like doing a very important and essential service for the world and and You know, you're known in your community as somebody who does that, which is very 10th House thing.

Ada 1:50:06

I love that you're bringing up the idea of assistance here, because as we were looking at different interpretations of the 12th house, one of the potential interpretations of the 12th house is that it's something that is painfully obvious to everybody but you about you, and having mercury in the 10th house, seeing Venus in the 12th. So clearly, Mercury is your perceiving function. So it allows you to see almost like, the back of your neck, like you've got this, this mirror system that's allowing you to see something about yourself that you wouldn't otherwise be able to see. And it really stands out because like, you know, you, you have this artistic vocation. And I think that a lot of people with Venus in the 12th house would like, you know, be making these incredible paintings or what have you. And people would be like, you have a calling, and they'd be like, what, but you can see it, you can own it, and you have all your life, I think that that mercury is, is giving you an assist there.

Tristan 1:51:15

Don't sleep on sextiles. This is the moral of the story, the sextiles make the eighth and the 10th house work together, they make small from the 10th house work together. They make all kinds of stuff work together that at first glance, you wouldn't think that'll work, and then you hear it. Like, I'm trying to think of the first person who thought it was a good idea to put like percussion and singing together. Somebody was like literally banging, like making banging noises, and someone else's singing and you're like, how do those things go together? And next thing, you know, you have a song and people are dancing. Yeah.

Kyle 1:51:54

Let me think that that part of what makes somebody a good dancer is the ability to forget themselves or to let go lose control.

Ada 1:52:08

So if we suddenly find a political action group that is fighting for sextiles writes

Kyle 1:52:18

about mercury in Aries wants to to be very active about defending Oh, yes, yes. And it just occurred to me that you have the opposite basically of Ted Kaczynski, where Texans can Venus in Aries and Mercury in Gemini. And I don't know if you'd like playing with fire at all.

Ada 1:52:39

Well, I have Mercury and Venus co President Aries, Mercury and Mars in a mutual reception at that Mars in Gemini. Fire. I do like to play with fire too. I love beautiful weapons. As long as they're peace tide.

Kyle 1:53:02

I like Battlefield scenes. Yes. So cool. So beautiful. Anyway,

Tristan 1:53:11

for all of our examples have been Venus Mercury sextiles.

Kyle 1:53:17

I know I was I have I have another I've actually a couple of sextiles in one chart that have nothing to do with Mercury or Venus. Right? Yeah, I do. Let me show ya. So I have Mary Shelley's birth chart. Oh, big fan. She was an author in the early 18th century, one of the few women to get published around that time. It's actually rather rather impressive that she managed to accomplish it at that time, not a time where they were publishing women. But she say a cancer rising. For everyone that looks like it was pretty well documented. First time. Cancer rising two degrees with Saturn in cancer in the first house. And nine degrees. You got a pretty packed third house, Mars, the sun, Uranus and Mercury in Virgo. And then in the fourth house, you have Venus in Libra. And there's other planets. But what I wanted to focus on first was there is a pretty close sextile with Saturn in Mary's first house, nine degrees of cancer and the sun in Virgo at seven degrees in the third house. And one of the ways that you can look at that is like okay, she was a writer first house third house connection. You know, you have also Saturn ruling the seventh house as well as the eighth house and the son ruling the second house and she was basically able to do Right and basically able to be supportive while she did that, because of her marriage, she was married to somebody who's fairly well off. And even. Actually, after he died, she inherited a pretty good amount of money was able to more or less sustain herself. So one of the ways that that kind of works and then you also have the sun in a sextile with Neptune, like it's pretty Neptune in Scorpio in the fifth house. It's actually pretty tight Sun plying within a degree just about Yeah. Well, some degree sextile with Neptune and Neptune is in the fifth house in Scorpio. And I'm just thinking about Frankenstein. And just this sort of like, fantastic sort of horror novel that she wrote. And the the sextile between the third and the fifth house. Creative Writing, in this case, like a sort of fantastic horror novel.

Ada 1:55:57

Rather dreamlike.

Kyle 1:56:00

Yeah, yeah. Does.

Ada 1:56:02

It came to her in a dream.

Kyle 1:56:04

Did it? Oh, really? It is? Yeah. Interesting.

Ada 1:56:07

They were doing a Writing Challenge. They were in this creepy old house and they were bored and it was storming. And everybody was like, let's write horror stories. And that's why they're most of the famous writers in the group just kind of screwed around with it and didn't really take it seriously. The doctor like the group's Doctor ended up writing one of the first vampire novels, which really inspired Bram Stoker and

Tristan 1:56:36

Joseph Sheridan Le Fanu. Carmela

Ada 1:56:40

No, it was called the vampire PYR. II. Okay, yeah. And Mary Shelley was, she really wanted to do this. She was super enthusiastic. And she got frustrated that she couldn't think of any ideas. And she went to bed. And she dreamed the story of Frankenstein. And she claims that she just wrote down what she dreamed.

Tristan 1:57:00

That's very cool.

Kyle 1:57:03

That's interesting. And third,

Tristan 1:57:04

that you see another good example of a sextile between houses where the third house has a lot to do with writing and communication. And the fifth house has a lot to do with creativity and works of artistic merit. And you have a bunch of planets in the third and a planet in the fifth. communicating with each other through that sextile. And you get writing from dreams.

Kyle 1:57:30

Yeah, like how to its third house is just kind of like hanging out too, with like, people around you, like your boats maybe. And like that sort of served as inspiration like, hey, let's write a horror novel. And then she slept on it and out popped. Frankenstein.

Ada 1:57:47

And I love the connection with that Uranus right there. Uranus. And electricity is like a common thing. And electricity is like a an important. Oh, yeah. Wait, and Frankenstein. Sounds pretty close to inspiration. Yeah.

Tristan 1:58:03

I like the that you pointed out that house rulers too. I think that's another important thing to think about when you're interpreting your own sextiles. If you see a sextile between two planets, what houses to those planets rule where Mary Shelley's got the sun in Virgo ruling her second house and Saturn and cancer ruling her seventh house and was able to pursue this career because of benefits from her relationship like money from her relationships. So you've got the ruler of money and the ruler of relationship sextile so I love I love that example. Kyle, that's really good. It's it's very helpful when you're interpreting sextiles in your own chart of you're sort of like what are those planets have to do with each other look at the houses that they roll and the topics of those houses and see if those topics in your own life mesh in some way if maybe you've had opportunities, because of a combination of those topics,

Ada 1:59:01

I think is really interesting that both of the rulers have the third and the fifth are in the third house. Mercury rules Virgo and Mars rules Scorpio.

Kyle 1:59:11

Yeah, I know it's like at all it's like Mars and the Sun are together. It's like ruling that fifth house. One of the ways you can look at the sun because I have a habit of getting too wrapped up in like the houses the planet rules and I'll forget about the planet sometimes. But the Sun just being sort of a sort of the mind and like that, that sort of that sense of knowing and like having so much sort of under the beams of the sun like within that light. While you may not necessarily see the planet like the sun knows what's going on there and sometimes is able to communicate that in a more effective way. Huh? So I got me oh

Tristan 1:59:55

yeah, I prepared one example for each aspect. Okay, that's fine so that we didn't end up doing an hour press but I

Kyle 2:00:03

didn't even get into which we did today. One I was going to talk about kind Lima No, but yeah, we should we should wrap it up. Because we've already talked about sextile for like an hour, and I think this is probably going to be part one, which is fine. Fine with me. Yeah, I'm enjoying this, sir. Oh, yeah, this is gonna be fun.

Ada 2:00:23

If this ends up being like a 12 part series or something? Aspects

Kyle 2:00:37

Yeah, we'll wrap it up for today. And I wanted to say thank you so much for joining us, Ada. Having me. My pleasure. How, you know, what do you have going on? Oh,

Ada 2:00:51

goodness. So I am wrapping up two courses that I'm teaching, this is actually a really great opportunity to jump in on them. If you're, well, obviously, you're interested in learning astrology because you're you're listening to this podcast by that a reduction to astrology class and the chart interpretation course, and they're subscription based on Patreon. And if you're an overachiever who likes to binge on lectures, you can kind of jump in at the tail end and get like, all of the lectures that I've given so far without having to wait for me to release them on a monthly schedule, and you can get them quite a bit cheaper. So you can find that on patreon@patreon.com slash eat at Pembroke.

Kyle 2:01:33

Yeah, I'm a member of his Patreon. I highly recommend it because he had a cool T chat yesterday and a lot of cool discussions going on and I saw your awesome bookcase. And the reason that's the first thing I think about because I super jealous of the bookcase that you have in your room. It's the whole wall. It's like literally what I dream of, I want a wall that is just a bookcase.

Ada 2:01:55

It is my favorite thing in the universe. And I was so happy that you were able to make our cosmic tea party yesterday.

Kyle 2:02:03

It was nice, joyful, do more things like that. Well, anything you care to tell the world about Tristan,

Tristan 2:02:12

not really. I will have a link to my Instagram in the show notes. And that's about it for me. And I would also like to second Kyle's recommendation to sign up for Adas Patreon. I'm also a patron and I've loved every minute of it. There's lots of great lectures, and the discord server is fantastic. So get in on that. You guys are the best. We're just telling the truth.

Ada 2:02:41

Yeah, but I like the only topic. Yeah.

Kyle 2:02:48

Yeah, well for me. Forget what I want to say about my stuff. But you know, you can always always book a reading with me on my website cop. Strongly sure.com It's not astrology anymore, astrologer cuz yeah, that's what I am. And just go to my website and you'll see everything that I'm doing. I have a separate events calendar. So you know, you can stay tuned to where I will be appearing in the world. But also included on that calendar is our the rooms for our group, the three of wands on the clubhouse app.

Tristan 2:03:27

So Kyle and I and our friend Shay, who you may remember from the houses series, we did have a clubhouse club on the clubhouse app, obviously, called the three of wands, there'll be a link in the show notes. There are a couple of different rooms that we do. But one that I definitely want to let you know about is the astrology report that Kyle and I do every other Friday at 6pm Eastern time. So we get together and we just talk about the transits coming up for the next couple of weeks and what kinds of themes they represent. So if you want to hear more of Carl and I talking about astrology, and also have an opportunity to talk back at us, please download the clubhouse app and join us every other Friday. Do it.

Ada 2:04:15

That sounds amazing.

Kyle 2:04:16

Good time. We always have fun. I feel bad though, because we missed the taro room today to record.

Tristan 2:04:23

Yes Also, if you're a fan of taro, our good friend Shay hosts taro travels every Thursday at 6pm Eastern time. And that is a really fun room where we get together we talk about each tarot card in the deck, one at a time. And we share stories from our own lives about the themes of the cards. So it's a nice way to learn Tarot through people's personal narratives, I find is a really useful tool. It's a lot more fun than just like memorizing a bunch of key words or whatever other strategies you might run into for learning Tarot So definitely join that.

Kyle 2:05:03

Really we're the one stop shop for all your divination needs. Why would you go anywhere else? Yeah, well, we'll call it a day and I can't wait for next time when we get into some more of them, which we're gonna do next. Right. We'll get into trains probably.

Tristan 2:05:22

Yeah, I think well, my whole plan has been. My plans are finished. was to do sextiles and trines. Back to back. Oh, yeah. But that's okay. We will end on sextiles and begin on trines for the next episode. I always have so much more to say than planned on but I know.

Kyle 2:05:47

That's why you love us. That's why you keep coming back and listening and leaving reviews. And we'll see you all next time.

Tristan 2:05:54

Thank you for listening. And thank you again, Ada for joining us. Thank you. If you have a question you would like to hear answered on astrology hotline. Email us at astrology hotlinepod@gmail.com

Transcribed by https://otter.ai