The North Node and Difficult Time Lords

Kyle Pierce 0:04

Hello and welcome to astrology hotline, the podcast where we answer all your burning birth chart in astrology questions, we are returning to our usual format while we prepare to record the last of the astrology 101 series covering the aspects. So it's just me interest in today. And I'm kind of excited because it's been a while since we've done a regular episode. And I don't know it feels nice feels like old times or something even though it was only like, what a few months ago.

Tristan Paylor 0:36

Way back in the old days the early days of astrology hotline

Kyle Pierce 0:41

Yeah. It feels like a different time even though it wasn't but I was thinking about it. And we started that series basically during the Venus retrograde and since then I have there's like wild like new ideas about like, direction Whoa.

Tristan Paylor 1:01

I'm warning you. Gonna be good.

Kyle Pierce 1:06

Also joining us today is jitsu the dog

Tristan Paylor 1:10

Ketsu is not happy because the hydro company is doing some work on my street right outside my window. There are people having noisy conversations outside the window and he just thinks it shouldn't be happening to is against electricity. He is against construction. He thinks the world should just stay as it is and be without modern technology.

Kyle Pierce 1:35

I wish that we were doing the we could just switch formats today and just do the pets episode or want to see gets us chart now because I feel like I have some feelings in common with Ketsu the crotchety old man placements or something?

Tristan Paylor 1:55

Oh, yeah, he's definitely Yep. Are you a crotchety old man? You were quiet for 45 minutes until we started recording. All right. Well, let's plow forward.

Kyle Pierce 2:09

Yeah, I think it was all just a bit of my thought about the Venus retrograde and you know, we're out of the Venus retrograde Venus is separating from Mars. And you know, just feels like it's going to be different. Different show or something. Anyway, how are you enjoying the Venus Saturn conjunction? It's happening, like right now actually just separated. You're loving it. Right.

Tristan Paylor 2:33

It's squaring my moon. And it really occurred to me that that was happening until today.

Kyle Pierce 2:40

Get about that moon sometimes. Try to

Tristan Paylor 2:45

Yeah, I don't know. I am in a weird place today. I think it's mostly just manifested as repairs needing to be done on you know, the hydro lines on my street or new hydro pole needing to go up and that, you know, delaying our creative endeavor. I eat this podcast, somewhat. I don't know. But I'm in like, I'm in a weird headspace I been working on getting back to making art. And when I get into a creative headspace, it's sometimes a little obsessive. And everything else falls by the wayside. So I think I've been going a little too hard and in that direction, and I'm kind of noticing that today like, Okay, I need to sort of pull myself back a little and center myself and take care of everything else in my life to be a little more balanced. So maybe that's how Venus Saturn conjunction is working out for me is just sort of like a hand on my shoulder saying, hey, like, don't get too fixated on one particular thing and blind yourself to everything else around you.

Kyle Pierce 3:54

Totally, I been looking forward to the Venus Saturn conjunction specifically because it marks the end of the enclosure of Venus sandwiched between, you know, pointy Mars and the Hard Rock of Saturn. And I think you're, you're on to it where it's like, I don't know if your Venus in that situation. It's like I need to create, I don't know, it's like there's like something like a frantic sort of energy to, I think Venus that is sandwiched between malefics possibly, it's gonna play out in a lot of different ways. But I feel like I've been feeling that where it's like, you're like there's a push pole and like, the only way to like handle it is to like, buckle down and like do do the thing that you think is going to get you out of the situation, or distract you from from the tension. And I feel like now the Venus is separating from that. It's like, kind of getting back down to earth and like, I don't know, maybe creating from a more relaxed, peaceful space, as opposed to like, I need to get something done right now need to need to create get it all get it all out make up for lost time.

Tristan Paylor 5:08

Yeah, I think that's you hit the nail on the head exactly there. Venus is normally pretty relaxed. But the feeling that I've been having around my creativity is that sort of urgent, high pressure feeling like it's sort of uncomfortable. It's it's sort of like, something is scratching, like, there's a tag in my sweater that's scratching against me, and I have to do something about it. As opposed to this sort of, like relaxed creativity that, you know, just generates a sense of flow.

Kyle Pierce 5:42

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Which, I mean, it's been very productive. I think for me, I've gotten like a lot of meat, a lot of stuff. gotten a lot of stuff out. But it's a lot of like, it's a lot of tense energy. And it's a lot of standing up to wait. Oh, no. Yeah. Probably inclined to do anyway. But almost like feel some of that tension kind of coming off. Or it could just be the delightful presence of my, my good friend Tristan. Let's see soothing me right now. Making it awkward.

Tristan Paylor 6:21

That's me, I'm this. I'm a soothing presence.

Kyle Pierce 6:24

I'm soothed, I imagine. And this might dip into some of what we're going to talk about first question, but I feel like you are a soothing presence, probably for the listeners as well. Because you don't have

Tristan Paylor 6:40

Go ahead. No, what were you gonna say?

Kyle Pierce 6:43

Say you don't have the A be chaotic north node quite as close to your ascendant as I do. So,

Tristan Paylor 6:53

right, you put it right on your midheaven.

Kyle Pierce 6:55

Yeah, that's right. Or the ascendant? Yeah, yeah. It's not quite as close to your your midheaven is now it's on mine.

Tristan Paylor 7:03

It's actually, it's pretty, that's fitting was something that I learned that we will talk about, as we get more into our first question that's very, very relevant to something that I learned about the North Node in, in Vedic Astrology. But maybe we should just go ahead and introduce our first question. So yeah, people know what the hell it is they're talking about.

Kyle Pierce 7:28

Yes, yeah. We're getting ahead of ourselves, which is very north node. But um, listeners may recall that we did an episode. Actually, right before we started the astrology 101 series on it. bleedthrough episode was called Venus retrograde and the south node. And the question that we had regarding the south node, you know, whether or not the South Node indicates past lives in some way, we ended up talking a lot about the South Node in general. And Colin has asked us to sort of complement maybe our discussion on the south node with a discussion on the North Node. Such a cancer.

Tristan Paylor 8:13

Yeah, so we're today we're going to elaborate if kids

Kyle Pierce 8:18

are interested in space, right.

Tristan Paylor 8:20

Are you? Are you gonna let us talk about the North Node, buddy? No. They're banging outside. Now. It's not just talking. There's some kind of loud banging noise going on. Anyway. All right. I guess a good place to start is by defining what exactly the North Node is. It is the point where the moon crosses the ecliptic. And I know we've talked about this many times on the podcast. But just to review, the ecliptic is the sort of circle we imagine around the Earth, that tracks the apparent path of the sun. From our point of view, it looks like the sun is moving around the earth. You know, that's not literally true, but that's what it looks like. So the ecliptic is just that big circle around the earth. And conveniently, you know, everything in astrology, the signs of the zodiac, and the planets, you know, roughly move along the ecliptic, but they're not perfectly lined up with the movement of the sun, they'll go a little north or a little south of that circle. And so the moon will always, you know, almost always be a little north or a little south of the ecliptic. But the nodes the north and south nodes are the points where in the moon's orbit, it actually crosses that circle that actually touches it and intersects. So the North Node is the point where the moon crosses the ecliptic and starts moving north in latitude above the ecliptic, whereas the south node is where the moon crosses the ecliptic and starts moving south. And so you already get a little bit of a clue as to what the nodes might mean from this astronomical reality because when the moon is above the ecliptic, it's sort of elevating the principle of the moon. So the North Node is the really Mooney node. And when the moon goes south of the ecliptic, the sun, the solar principle is elevated above the lunar principles. So with the south node, the solar principle is a little bit more elevated.

Kyle Pierce 10:33

Yeah, it's interesting, since like, the last time that we discussed this, on the south node episode, I started noticing a lot of ancient texts, the the references to the moon. And basically, whether it's northern or southern in latitude, that it was just generally considered more favorable for the moon to be in northern latitude. Sure, that was interesting. I sound something I ever thought about. I'd sound something they end up using interpretively at this point, but sort of makes sense that like, yeah, the moon might be more, it's just more connected with the South Node, if it's, you know, in southern latitude and a little more connected with the North Node if it's in northern latitude.

Tristan Paylor 11:13

Yeah, definitely. And I think that gets to the heart of the meaning of the nodes, in a sense, because they are the points where eclipses happen. And you can kind of think of an eclipse as a cosmic showdown between the sun and the moon. When there is a lunar eclipse, we can't see the moon anymore. And when there's a solar eclipse, we can't see the sun anymore, because the moon is blocking it. So there's almost it symbolically almost feels like a power struggle between two forces, you know, at the lunar force, symbolizing material reality, earthly concerns, you know, physicality. And the solar principle being, you know, mind or spirit or more sort of abstract concerns.

Kyle Pierce 12:04

Yeah, then especially when you get into the Vedic tradition of the nodes, the nodes really end up signifying, like a showdown between the luminaries, the solar lunar bodies, and this other force. The nodes themselves sort of become this, their own sort of entity, and really end up signifying, which mean, shows up a lot in western tradition as well, the overturning of authority figures, you know, going against the grain of what's established.

Tristan Paylor 12:43

Yeah, they're apocalyptic. And there's symbolism, which, you know, I think I probably talked about in the south node episode, and it's hard not to, you can't really talk about one without talking about the other, they're tied together in separately. Yeah. But yeah, there's a lot of apocalyptic symbolism involved in the nodes, because, of course, you know, eclipses were often in ancient times, you know, they would have been terrifying, before people understood what was actually going on, you know, in descriptions and apocalyptic literature, what the End Times looks like, you'll often get images of the sky going dark, or, you know, and in the story of Ragnarok, and Norse mythology, you have the sun and the moon being consumed by a Great Wolf. And that's sort of like consuming the light is a big, that's a really key image for the nodes. That comes up very literally, in Vedic Astrology, where the sort of story behind the nodes which are called Rahu and Ketu, in Vedic Astrology is that of a, a demon that consumes the elixir of immortality kind of defies the gods in this great cosmic conflict. And before Vishnu is able to kill this demon, he's already consumed the elixir of immortality. So Vishnu cuts him in half and but like both halves of his body are mortal at that point. So you just have this like, monster that's been sort of cut in half in the north node is is the head of that monster. So you get some of that, like consuming, consuming the light kind of symbolism.

Kyle Pierce 14:31

Oh, yeah. And I love that story. And it really captures the essence of the idea of the North Node as this disembodied head that is really hungry, and it consumes and it consumes, but it is not filled. It has no body for what it's consuming to to be taken in as its sustenance or to digest or to hold the consumed thing. So it's just keeps consuming and consuming consuming, and that's really the heart of the North Node is just more, it's hungry. And it pursues and acquires and it like wants to possess things, but it doesn't keep them. It doesn't. It's like the changes that the North Node tends to signify. sorts of things that it introduces aren't necessarily like the most lasting things in the world. They're sort of temporary. The north node itself, it like switches, Gears a lot. It I don't know, when I think of like the North Node as a person. And you get a lot of like, really good Vedic descriptions of like, who the North Node is, you know, like, who they they describe, they very much personify them. I think of like, and I've met a lot of people like this, who, like you meet, and they just sort of blast you with, like, every idea that they have. Or they'll promise a bunch of things. Like, they're like, oh, I have this idea about this thing. Do you want to do this thing? Let's do this thing. And like, you get excited about it. And then the next day, they're like, Oh, what, what are you talking about? I'm doing this other thing today. Like I like they'll it seems like they forget that they'll have like, in practical application, like the North Node will talk about the positives, too. But it would make it like a great con artist. Yeah, that

Tristan Paylor 16:30

that really fits. My image that I usually have for the nodes is of school and hottie the two great wolves in Norse mythology, who constantly chase the sun in the moon. They never catch them. But they're always chasing them. And so it's like, you, you have the Vedic symbolism of a bottomless head, that eats and eats and eats, but it's never filled. And so there's this sort of impermanence, or, you know, you think of the wolves skolan hottie where they never actually catch the thing that they're chasing, but they're perpetually chasing it. Yeah, that's the kind of energy that the North Node brings, oh, yeah, you don't necessarily get what you want. But you will stop at nothing to get it.

Kyle Pierce 17:19

Absolutely. And it's, I've heard comparisons to like the North Node and the south node to like different planets, but then the North Node, it can get associated with Saturn, because it is very critical. It's kind of going against, you know, whatever the establishes, it's like the anti sun, in the sense, tend to think of like, I like to think of the North Node as like the anti sun and the south. And as the anti moon, it's not really, it's the North Node is very extroverted. It's very externally oriented, while the south node is very internal, but the North Node is like always out, expressing, you know, out making things happen, it's very outwardly and physically oriented. But it's doing so from a place of like challenging the established norm, the established authority, kind of in an effort to overturn it and sort of take it for itself. I was going somewhere with it, and went off on another tangent, but it's very north node. So the North Node, you know, it doesn't it's not very prudent, they say, it's not doesn't necessarily plan its actions out. It's following hunger, it's following impulse. It's following what, you know, it desires in the moment, but that desire changes a lot. And it doesn't. It doesn't stick out, I wish I could go back to what you were saying, because I like, that's why I didn't get tied. Was there something that was tying into it?

Tristan Paylor 18:49

I'm just thinking about that. The shift in power, the anti establishment, anti authority, energy that you were describing, is really key to how I understand the North Node as well, both the nodes really. And you know, I think about the image of the crucifixion where there's an eclipse that happens at the moment that Jesus is supposed to die. And, you know, symbolically in Christianity that moment represents the end of an old era and the beginning of a new era. And then, you know, and within early Christian literature, you have books like revelation, which is all about how you know the Roman occupation of Judea is going to violently end and God is going to turn the world upside down and the oppressed will go free and it will be a good day for you know, the people who have been kept under the thumb of systems of power for a very long time. Is that reversible? You know, whatever is in power now is no longer in power. It's a very it's like the tower the tower Our card in the Tarot is very nobody total that moment where the king gets knocked off of their throne.

Kyle Pierce 20:06

Yeah. Well, and you know very much in keeping with that North Node quality of expanding beyond its means it's it's like because it doesn't, you know plan so much it has like a goal of say overturning the authority making me think of my complaint about the new Star Wars movies, which I'm sorry to any fans, this is just my personal quarrel with it was that in the first of the new trilogy, right? It was like you just had a new Rebel Alliance and a new empire. And my issue with it was not with the movies themselves, it was just like, wow, like, the Rebel Alliance and the other set of movies, the original set, like what was their plan? Like, their whole thing was to overturn the Empire and replace it with what they might have had a better idea, but it like didn't really implement like they, they overturned the Empire, but they didn't replace it with like, a new structure. And comparably, I couldn't find in the first movie, or the new Star Wars like what what is this new Rebel Alliances thing? Like they just don't like the Empire? That's their thing? What are they going to replace the empire with when they take it over? Or when when they overturn it. And that's like, the essence of the North Node is like, I just want to overturn it, I want this thing to change, I want this thing to go away. But I don't have a plan for how, how I'm going to implement a new new regime afterwards. When comparably, you know, whatever else the North Node is doing, it's going to treat it in the same way. And I find that I, you know, I'm not, you're not going to have like a pure north node person, you'll find people that like, emphasize it. Different ways. But I, I know that for me, it's like something I've always been aware of, it's like I, I will often I have to expand beyond my beyond the limits of like, what I can maybe support just staying, and then have to consolidate afterwards, like, Okay, this is I've got to this point. And now, what can I actually hold on to? Let's figure that out. But they have to sort of lean into that North Node energy, sometimes it's just like, I just have to expand, I just have to get further. And then we'll see how I can hold, you know, what I've gained.

Tristan Paylor 22:29

And I think that's a really good point that, you know, the North Node serves a purpose that has a function, but it only goes so far. If you need something overturned. dramatically and absolutely, like that thing is going to completely end. You need the North Node, the energy of the North Node, but the North Node is not then the one on the ground rebuilding things after they've all been overturned. You know, that's somebody else's job you need like Jupiter for that, you know, it'd be like, Okay, well, what? What is what is our vision for a better world? And how can that actually be implemented? You know, Jupiter will jump in and do that kind of stuff. The North Node just wants to knock over the tower of blocks. Yeah. And then I'm trying not to swear. And then take off and knock down the next tower of blocks at CES. You should stick around. I shouldn't swear more.

Kyle Pierce 23:24

Yeah, cuz I swear too much.

Tristan Paylor 23:25

And we only get so many, right, like,

Kyle Pierce 23:30

I know, we overdo. We

Tristan Paylor 23:31

don't mark the podcast as explicit, we only get one F bomb per episode or something, or we have to make it explicit.

Kyle Pierce 23:40

That's right. And I think that this could be old. I don't know if Apple still does this, but like on Apple podcasts, if you are marked as explicit, like you don't show up anywhere on their charts.

Tristan Paylor 23:53

That's frustrating. Yeah.

Kyle Pierce 23:55

Which I don't know if it's still the case. But anyway, well, yeah. Like the, when you're talking about the North Node, it's like, that sounds a lot like Mars. Right? And it's, I would say that it's more like Mars than it is like Saturn. Where, you know, Mars, its intention is to destabilize us things to get things moving. And the north node has that quality as well. And it has kind of a Jupiter quality of creating expansion totally expands, but it's expands things like you would blow global like a blimp or a balloon. It's not, you know, a solid sort of expansion. It's a expansion that is very prone to being unstable and doesn't necessarily have stuff backing up. What what it is, that's expanding, I think of the stock market a lot when I think of the North Node. And my partner Megan, who has been really into the stock market lately and doing great by the way. The stock market has a lot of it does seem to move when insignificant things are happening with the nodes. But it is like sort of that like the price just rises suddenly, based entirely on people's expectations. It's not necessarily tied to the value of the company. It's tied to, oh, well, everybody just bought a bunch. So now the value is up. But that value, because it's based on something that is very fickle, such as people how people are feeling about the stock at any given moment, it's not going to stay there, it's going to probably drop. And that's like a very different kind of expansion than, say, Jupiter, which will like slowly build up a company and, you know, expand at a good, solid, sustainable pace. North notice rapid and then collapses.

Tristan Paylor 25:48

I'm hungry, there, it's thoughtless. Yeah.

Kyle Pierce 25:52

I'm gonna make some quick, easy money.

Tristan Paylor 25:54

Totally, regardless of the consequences. Yeah, it's not the most moral thing. It's really I mean, it's at the center of the nodal axis is really just struggle for power and conflict. Yeah. You know, on a very large scale, they're very political in that sense. And, you know, in your own chart, when you're looking at the axis of the south node, and the North Node like that is a place where there is some kind of tension or struggle for power going on in your own chart. You know, some of the images for that are a night fighting against a dragon, you know, this sort of medieval romantic image of someone struggling against a dragon. You know, the nether struggle and Norse mythology. That's very nobody is Odin struggle against Fenris. You know, odo Yang, the leader of the gods is sort of like representative of the dominant power in the world, and the sort of organizing principle of civilization and order, and Fenris is this like wild wolf represents, you know, what is untamed? What is chaotic. And during Ragnarok, Odin and Fenris, get into a fight and end up killing one another fenders consumes Odin, and Odin son, Avengers him against Fenris. And so both end up dead. There's those those kinds of struggles that are at the heart of the north and south node. And I think those kinds of struggles are inevitable. When we're too dualistic, and our thinking, you know, it's like, if there is good, then there must also be evil, and the two of them is perpetually struggle against one another. So I think one of the things that can help you no trouble related to the nodal axis is learning to see outside of duality, being able to sort of integrate the opposite. Because in a conflict, there are these sort of mirror image perceptions that happen, where one side thinks that the other side is guilty of all the things it considers to be the worst, and vice versa. Both sides are kind of thinking like, oh, you know, the, the enemy is responsible for all of the most morally reprehensible things in the world. And my side is somehow immune to those kinds of things. There's a sort of human tendency to sort all incoming information into binaries or opposites of some kind. And that is useful in a lot of ways, but can also really severely limit us and create these sorts of internal conflicts within ourselves, right? Where it's like, if, if these kinds of thoughts or these kinds of feelings are good, that means the opposites are bad. You know, if, if feeling happy when I see somebody else achieve something important to them is good and feeling jealous is bad. And you've created this internal conflict between jealousy and you know, happiness over someone else's accomplishments. And if you're able to sort of break outside of that dualistic way of thinking about your yourself, and you're able to stop sort of attaching those value judgments to those feelings, where it's just like, this is a feeling of happiness for someone else's gain. And this is a feeling of jealousy and those they're, they're not good or evil. They're just what they are. They're just feelings. Yeah. That can really help sort of resolve some of that inner conflicts. And I think like that kind of inner conflict can be you know, what the nodes might represent in a new It'll chart where you know, you look within yourself for certain things in your life. And you're like, where am I pitted against myself, or where are certain aspects of my life pitted against each other. And you know, both these sides of my life are like, well, the only way that I can succeed is for the other one to fall. And that kind of black and white thinking is actually what's causing the problem. So to sort of resolve the nodal tension, it's like, instead of being the knight trying to be had the dragon, maybe be like, the person on the strength card, who's gently subduing the lion, you kind of integrate the lion into a more holistic view of yourself, instead of rejecting or trying to kill the lion.

Kyle Pierce 30:39

That's a really good point. Because the nodes really do carry that like that polarizing function, which has a purpose for sure. Like if you know, sometimes, in order to change something, you have to take on like the agency of its opposite to, you know, to kind of rail against it, like that thing is my enemy, I have to stop this. So like, if you have a drinking problem, you might down the hat of, you know, a person who is just totally against alcohol. In fact, I know people like that, but you know, they will take on these sort of very polarized roles of like, oh, I don't do that thing anymore. I hate that thing. That thing is the root of all evil. And it's extreme, but it helps them get through the thing to stop doing the thing that they need stop doing, you know, they turn it into an enemy, they turn around to the polar opposite thing. Yeah, and that's actually a good way of looking at the nodes, the North Node, maybe particular, because I know people like that. And I know when they're in that mode, that they're not going to stay in that mode. It's like temporary, I know, I've even done that to some degree. Because the North Node is very good at creating the appearance of something like I imagine the North Node as a person, as they want to say they want to become king, right of a country, they will get themselves some king robes will get themselves a King crown, and a vole scepter. And they will walk the walk and talk the talk. But they probably don't actually have any don't have any land, they don't have, you know, a kingdom. But because they're able to, to push themselves through the door, and, to some degree, put on the airs, right, or maintain the facade or, you know, put on the appearance of the role that they're trying to play, that can actually take them a long way. And actually, I really am thinking of the phrase fake it till you make it, which is a concept I've leaned on and a lot of situations, like you not maybe feeling like you belong in a certain role, maybe for good reason, because you have no experience in it, but like, you have to start somewhere. So you just you have to sort of fake, you know, your confidence in and your ability to mend situation in order to have opportunities to be in the situation to begin with. And, yeah, I think that the North Node plays a critical role in in that kind of thing. I mean, it pushes you forward, it pushes you out of your comfort zone, which is often very necessary.

Tristan Paylor 33:34

Yeah, yeah, there's a big push. I think another key word that I would attach to the North Node, to both of the nodes is impermanence. And with the North Node specifically, when you think about the about what a hungry stomach is, it's a really good symbol for impermanence. The stomach is a great symbol for impermanence, the mouth is a great symbol for impermanence, because no matter how many times you eat, you never just eat one meal, and then you're good once and for all. You have to keep eating, it never stops, your stomach will empty and you will need to eat again. It's an endless cycle. You're never fully satiated, never permanently satiated. And that's how everything in life is there's no sort of perfect permanent satiation in any area of life. And there are a lot of ways of dealing with the reality of impermanence. You know, you can find a way of sort of staying in the center of that endless wheel of, you know, circumstances going up and down. You know, where, whether you're hungry or full. It doesn't make much of a difference to you because you're just so centered that You know, no matter how much things change around you, you're always sort of sort of like, centered in in some kind of inner peace, you know, maybe through meditation practices. But it's really good at that. Yeah, that's Well, that's what I was learning. I was watching the KERS channel on oh two, which is Vedic is a really popular Vedic Astrology channel some of our listeners might already be familiar with. And the host of that channel talks a lot about the nodes. And yeah, he mentioned that that the North Node is very materialistic. And the south node is a lot more spiritual because the south node is more about letting stuff go, yeah, north node is acquiring the south node is letting it go. Which in a lot of systems of spirituality, letting go is sort of, you know, one of the, the techniques of a spiritual life. So, you know, there's, there's that approach to navigating the reality of impermanence. But another way of navigating impermanence is allowing it to spur you into action, which is a very north know thing to do. There's a prayer that I read during eclipses. That is a prayer to Hattie in school, the two wolves that chase the sun and moon. And this poem, talks about how it's a prayer asking Hattie and school to remind us that we need to, to quote the poem devour life as a as a banquet, you know, to approach life with ecstatic haste. I'll include a link to this poem in the show notes. But when you recognize that nothing lasts forever, and all things come to an end, which is something that eclipses remind us of, at some point, the lights go out, yeah, we've remember to relish the moment that we're in and the things that we have, and to sort of approach our lives with a little bit more passion and a greater sense of haste, you know, to not want to waste time, on what you know, worrying about pointless stuff. So the nodes can be, I think, a reminder of that, and maybe, you know, potentially an indication in a birth chart of like, hey, you know, these areas of life, maybe areas of life where you really have to confront the reality of impermanence, you know, whether things are just up and down for you in those areas of life, and so it's a little more obvious to you, or you have great experience of loss or gain, and then loss and that area of life, or if it's just sometimes it's just that you spend a lot of time in that area of life. And so because of it, you're more aware of everything about that area of life, including its impermanent qualities. So in whatever way that manifests, there's this confrontation with impermanence that, you know, perhaps happens in the sign signs and houses that the nodes occupy in your chart. And that can be a reminder that like, Hey, don't take what's in these houses for granted. You know, like, if the North Node is in your seventh house, like don't take your relationships for granted. If the North Node is in your ninth house, like it is for Kyle, and I, you know, don't, don't take knowledge for granted, right? Like you only have so much time to learn everything you want to learn.

Kyle Pierce 38:22

Don't think that you can actually learn everything?

Tristan Paylor 38:24

That's where the North Node becomes a problem. Where are you over? You can easily overdo it with the North Node.

Kyle Pierce 38:32

Like I find myself, I want to know all of the stuff about this every bit and like there is none that no such thing. No,

Tristan Paylor 38:42

it's not possible. And yeah, that is the danger. And that is the danger of that approach to impermanence. Sometimes we can make ourselves anxious going like, oh God, if I you know, if I miss out on this moment, it's never gonna happen again, and you overthink it and you actually end up ironically ruining it for yourself when your intention was to try to enjoy it more fully.

Kyle Pierce 38:59

Absolutely. I'm really glad that you're bringing up that end of it, because that is like what I think that is what you need to do with the notes. And it's all about finding that balance. And you're gonna do that with any planet or any like real topic that is being indicated as you're going to try to find, you know, the, the middle path with it. Because the North Node and in the south node like they're, they do indicate impermanence. They do indicate like things fluctuating coming and going and coming and going. It's like Bing. Actually, like a lot of celebrities have very prominent north, south node placements than the nodes usually, like Angular or like, you know, figured to a planet really tightly. Not all of them obviously, but that makes me think of that, like, what you must, I imagine deal with as a celebrity. Is that up and down element of the career, you know, it's the flavor of the month, one month and then everybody hating you because of something you tweeted the next month and then And the month after that, you know, your new album drops. And everybody loves you again, like, it's, it's that kind of stuff, it's stuff coming up and down. And the only way that you find peace in that is by not being overly attached to it not being overly attached to the the ups and downs, yeah, again, maybe use the stock analogy, it's like, know what your long term plan is, the North Node is not going to be very good at that it's, you know, it's about now, and you can use that element, but just use it in concert with other things, you know, have a plan and try to stick to it. Because when you're watching your stock go up and down all the time, you know, you might panic sell, or you might think that, you know, this one's about to go up, I'm going to put it all on GameStop, and I'm going to make a fortune. And maybe you will, or maybe not, you know, those things rise and fall often. And bringing a moderate approach to that energy is important.

Tristan Paylor 41:05

I think the celebrity example is a really good one, especially since they are the lunar nodes, they are the nodes of the moon. And so although there's some solar symbolism to the notes, because it you know, it's where the moon intersects the ecliptic. So there is that sort of like blending, or struggle between the solar and lunar principles, they are ultimately the nodes of the moon and carry a lot of lunar symbolism. And the moon, you know, represents material reality, and what is necessary to sustain life in a material sense. So you think of celebrity there's sort of an overabundance of what is needed to sustain life, which is very north node. But there's also that impermanence that cycle of you know, people's fortunes rising and falling. You know, one minute they have, like, disgusting wealth, and the next minute they're bankrupt, because they spend too, like there's a lot of danger involved in celebrity for sure. Oh, yeah. Which does feel very north node.

Kyle Pierce 42:06

And just getting too caught up in the constant change of

Tristan Paylor 42:09

it. Yeah, yeah. Like you said, you need, finding the steel plates and detachment, navigate that successfully without going to you know, without losing yourself in it. And what was the other thing I was gonna say, oh, when you were talking about, you know, moderation because the North Node is not a very moderate thing. But astrology in general, I've noticed as a system really seems to, like one of the major lessons of astrology as a whole is moderation and balance. It's like everything you're looking at. In astrology, you're kind of trying to prevent things from going too far to either extreme, like everything exists in a counterbalance with something else. You know, the North Node has its south node, the south node has its north node, the sun has the moon and so they're always existing in balance. And the nodes are always an opposite science. And in evolutionary astrology, which is a tradition of astrology that really centers the nodes. It said that if there are excesses or ailments are struggles to be found in one sign the solution is to be found in its opposite.

Kyle Pierce 43:24

Yeah. Well, there's even like, that shows up a lot in things outside of discussions on the nose notes in like, ancient techniques, like the sabbatical releasing, I know is like part of that loosing of the bond period, is, the idea is that it switches to the sign opposite, because at least, it's what drives me nuts about how astrology will get talked about in a lot of traditional texts is like, sometimes the opposition is like this, where it's, it's, you know, it's bad, it's hostile. But other times, they're like, No, those two signs, like, they are interacting with each other, and they create something new, you know, like that. That's like, their dynamic fertility of oppositional science. I tend to lean on that end of it. Anyway, that's a north node tangent. And see, and then I forgot where I started with it. You know, I have just, you know, for listeners to get some context. Hopefully, I won't always be quite as bad in this area as I am now. I have Neptune, like, right on my north node right now. And it was not a transit, I paid attention to really I was like, Oh, what's that? Like, you know, it's Neptune. And the nodes. Like, I feel like you need I don't know, I hadn't really paid much attention to transits to the north to your notes. But now I'm thinking about it. And I was like, Whoa, yeah, like I feel like I'm chasing all kinds of like Neptunian ideas. Oh, wow. And like finding like the center. stable place internally has been important. I've been like getting back in I'm meditating and stuff and like, I feel like Neptune dude, it's taking me down roads. And then I forget how I started down the track that I like why this is take it slow.

Tristan Paylor 45:20

This is very illuminating for me because I also I haven't really been paying attention to transits to my nodes. And Neptune's also going over my north node and Oh, my God, over the last few years have I just been switching directions all over the place, and pursuing whatever is in that direction with gusto, but not really having a ton of staying power. And not really being sure like, am I going to be fed? I, whatever it is, that I am undertaking. And I think maybe the lesson here for me is that ultimately, whatever path you go down, you are not going to be satiated by it, you're not going to be satisfied, you're not going to be you know, sort of fed in the way that you want to be fed. That there isn't just sort of like one pursuit, especially career wise, because you and I, the nodes are hanging her and Neptune, transiting around our mid heavens, like I'm thinking about in terms of career, like, it doesn't really matter what career I choose, the career itself is not going to bring me peace and satisfaction. It's doing like the South Node stuff, it's learning to let go and learning to cultivate healthy detachment and concentrating on spiritual practices, that is what is going to ultimately sort of allow me to tolerate the endless hunger that comes with a living being, Oh, yeah. So maybe just like, let go of this idea that I'm going to be like, this is going to be the one thing that's gonna make me totally fulfilled, and I'm gonna have a sense of overwhelming, never gonna change. Yeah, and it's, it's, that's just not realistic. That's not how it goes. And so you can like, pursue something that you love without making it into everything. And then you end up kind of ruining that thing, because you've expected too much from it, you know, yeah, you've expected more than it can deliver. And I'm thinking that's, I think that's my north node. Journey. Right now.

Kyle Pierce 47:23

I'm sort of watching out for the Neptune Jupiter conjunction that's happening on because Tristan was born a month before me. So we basically have the same node. And I know we've had a pattern of thinking this way, pursuing things in this way, historically, where it's like, you're looking for the happy ending, at the end of the movie, or the walk off into the sunset. Yeah, moment where, like, you know, you, you know that the story continues afterwards. But from the movies perspective, it's like, oh, and everything was fine. Afterwards, like that? Was it? Like, ah, and I feel like the Jupiter Neptune on the North Node, our North nodes, there's going to be like, maybe thinking that you found that or? Oh, yeah, seeking that out really hard. But like you were saying, I mean, it's the hunger and the SATA the emptiness, the nodes point to it's a fixture of life of existing, like you eat, you're full, and then you're hungry again. And like you're doing it over and over again, like you're never fully satisfied. And life is really the process of moving forward and continuing to do the things. And, you know, there isn't just like a one point, there isn't like a goal. Almost like an I think that might come up. Maybe you haven't, we're talking about ourselves too much, maybe. But the North Node in the ninth house is like, you know, because the North Node is so heretical, the nodes are, they're dead. They're not the counterculture, they're retrograde all the time. They're always moved. That's right. Yes, the green. They. It's like, No, this belief system, not enough, searching for more, deeper, deeper, I will find the meaning. And I will find that the singularity of happiness, that will stay within me forever. But that doesn't exist. That's not real. So. And maybe that's one of the things I wanted to say about the North Node. And I feel like I've been hearing a lot more moderated speech on the nodes. But I remember getting into astrology and very early on being introduced to the idea of like the North Node being what you're supposed to go towards in your life, like that's what you're supposed to go after. That's the thing that will give you fulfillment. Yes. And while I do hear a lot of, you know, moderating speech on that South Node, you go away from that you don't want South Node. Don't do that. I mean, go after your north node, but just recognize for what it is that it's not, it's a dragon that you're always gonna be chasing, and that you're never going to win it. It's not going to fulfill you. It'll be fun. And it'll be chaotic and cause a ruckus. But it will keep life interesting and spicy. But it's not going to give you that long term permanence, that that gratification that maybe you think it will.

Tristan Paylor 50:26

Yeah, I'm glad you said that. Because that has also been probably the idea that I run into the most commonly is that the south node is what you are supposed to be letting go of completely and the North Node is what you're supposed to be pursuing. And they certainly like to have that energy if, you know, maybe you want to live, what's around the South Node, and you want to gain what is around the North Node. But the real principle is like everything else in astrology, about balance, it's about finding that spot right in between the nodes. And yeah, the North Node, is that sort of like the answer to ultimate purpose, there might not be an answer to ultimate purpose. And that is perhaps the lesson of the North Node is that when you know, we think we've figured out like, this is the thing that gives my life ultimate meaning. A couple of years down the road, some circumstance in your life is going to change how you think or feel about that.

Kyle Pierce 51:19

Yeah, yeah. What does that mean? They say that the, the joy of the journey is the journey or whatever. Yeah, yeah. And the North Node is not about that Northlands about the destination if he wants to results, and once again, he doesn't believe in that's been one of the more mundane things is that like, the North Node is very results oriented, it's very good at identifying like, Okay, what of all this bad information? Do I need to get the result that I want? And I can be really nice for sorting through that. But you will pass things that maybe were important. It's actually an issue that I'm remembering an argument I got in with my sixth grade algebra teacher, sixth grade, eighth grade algebra teacher, about me not wanting to show my work, because I, I know how to answer the question, I can answer it in my own way. I don't need to show my work. I don't want to show my work, the way that you're telling me to show my work, because I already know the answer to the question. When I look at it, I don't want to do that. And then, you know, got in a huge argument about it got taken off of the Virginia trip that we had

Tristan Paylor 52:23

on No, you couldn't go on.

Kyle Pierce 52:27

I couldn't go on the field trip. No, no, it's good for that. But um, yeah, so I ended up realizing gently, yeah, like No, do it my way. I ended up realizing, really reluctantly, later on that I was like, oh, yeah, I see why I had to like go through the formality of doing the problems and all this and solving it in a specific way. Because now that we're further along, I actually need all those tools to solve these questions, these, these math problems. And now I don't know how to because I refused to take the, the conventional path, listen to the authority figures.

Tristan Paylor 53:10

And it's, it feels like another, you know, nodes in the third and ninth house kind of lesson because that is education. It's like that lesson, you know, I don't want to listen to my teachers, because the nodes are rebellious. But every now and then, like, they're actually, you know, telling you something useful. And you might miss out on that if you're just like a Rebel Without a Cause, and constantly trying to defy authority for the sake of defying authority, because you don't want to feel controlled by anything.

Kyle Pierce 53:37

That's, I think Rebel Without a Cause is the perfect description of the North Node.

Tristan Paylor 53:42

That can be and I'm just I'm thinking now of, you know, having the North Node in the ninth house and my approach to spiritual systems where, you know, I think this one's going to provide me with everything that I need to live, you know, a fully realized life, or however you want to describe it, and then turns out, it doesn't have everything you need. And then, you know, I'm like, Well, I'm gonna find the perfect one. And it's just like, the endless searching, like the North is constantly searching, searching. It's the endless seeker that never finds what it's seeking. And I feel like the only cure is sort of recognize, like, at some point, you got to settle on something that you know, is not going to satisfy you completely. But like, it's, you know, going to meet enough needs to be worth it, and it's not going to fit like a glove. And so I'm kind of thinking, you know, knowing that that's my experience with the ninth house, I'm thinking about the North Node and other houses, like in the seventh house, you know, is there a tendency to, you know, constantly be searching for the one you know, are the perfect, the perfect partner, perfect partner or the perfect relationship structure, like maybe, you know, the most ideal relationship structure or it's like, Well, the problem with relationships is that, you know, people shouldn't be monogamous or You know, they're they shouldn't be monogamous, but they need to be monogamous in this sort of way. And you're sort of like finding the perfect relationship structure that is going to meet all of your needs. But there's that like North Node restlessness, you know, are you chase something like a dog chasing a rabbit?

Kyle Pierce 55:19

Yeah, and I think maybe with the North Node, especially for me in for you dressed in, in the ninth house, right is like kind of embracing that element of the idea that, like, you're never gonna get to the end, like accepting that, and just sort of using that energy to just make you a really well read interesting person that knows a lot about a lot of different stuff. I think it's like the best way to use north node and say, the ninth house. You know, if it's in your 10th house, like, you know, maybe you have to switch careers a lot, and maybe you have to do a lot of different things to, to feel fulfilled in your career. And that could be like, what your, your reputation is based on is doing lots of different things, or incorporating lots of different things. Having lots of different friends, if it's an 11th house, you know, associating lots of different groups, I think there's ways that you can use the North Node in positive ways. It's just when you let go of the illusion that you're going to get to the finish line. And like when the fulfillment trophy,

Tristan Paylor 56:21

I think that's a really good way to put it. And it's a good way to wrap up on that. There's the moral of the North Node,

Kyle Pierce 56:27

I think the only thing I wanted to finish with the North Node to just the idea of, because we were talking about punk rock in the south node last time, and it was something that I was thinking a lot about. And while with the south node, you get that, like, you know, they're both have different approaches to being rebellious. The South Node, it's like, yeah, you get like the spiky shoulder pads and like the grungy clothes, right? But the North Node, you get the like, you know, that boy, like, fuck, you know, the Queen, or whatever. Anarchy and shit, like you're gonna get that more outwardly expressive element. So I think the notes period or just or punk rock? Yeah, and the thing is, with the nodes, it's like, they're always opposing each other, they're always interacting. So if you have it on an angle, you have the other one on the other angle. If you have it on a planet, then you have the other node opposing that planet. So it's like, you get both.

Tristan Paylor 57:23

You can't escape both sides of it. That's always a push and pull.

Kyle Pierce 57:27

Yeah. Well, then, are we ready to move on? Oh, go ahead,

Tristan Paylor 57:31

I just want to mention that I will include a link in the show notes with a bunch of other resources about the nodes if people are interested. And also just some like, some stuff from mythology and religion, too, that's relevant, like the story of Rahu and Ketu, or the stories of the wolves from Norse mythology, you know, you, you're in the mood to think more about the nodes, those stories can help you kind of enter into them through like a narrative means. And like some good articles that I have found for free online that get into you know, all of the background of how they're used in different forms of astrology. The really good article that I discussed in the south node episode by Curtis Manwaring, where he talks about case for the nodes as symbols of reincarnation in Hellenistic astrology, sort of like bridging between Hellenistic and evolutionary astrology. And there's a lot of just really cool info and thinking about the nodes in the article. So if you are hungry, like the North Node for more, click that link. And I'll have a little compilation of resources available for you. All right, so I'm ready for the next question. Which I'm responsible for introducing. So should I just get rid of Eddie ready? I'm ready. All right. Our next question comes from Angie, who has been through one health crisis after another since early 2020. Combined with what feels like a midlife crisis, and single parenthood, she has had enough. She'd like to know if there's anything in her chart that points to this. And if there's an end in sight, so we will have a copy of Angie's birth chart in the show notes, if you want to look at that, to follow along with our interpretations.

Kyle Pierce 59:34

Yeah. Well, thanks so much for sending in your question, Angie, I'm sorry, you're having such a hard time lately. I think that, you know, going over your chart, we'll do here together have a sense of like, where some of these experiences might have been pinged in your chart, but maybe we'll just give a brief overview of the chart. Oh, that's a good idea. So for Angie we have Libra rising. With Mars and Pluto hanging out pretty close to the ascendant. at 13 degrees Libra, we have Venus, the moon and Mercury up in the 10th house in cancer, the sun in Leo, pretty close to the North Node, around 15 degrees, Leo, and then Jupiter and Saturn in the 12th. House, in Virgo.

Tristan Paylor 1:00:26

We've got quite a cardinal sign party going on. Yes, all that stuff going on in cancer and the ascendant and Mars in Libra. Although I think in terms of timing, it's the stuff going on in Virgo in the 12th house that is most relevant over the last few years starting in 2020. So using the technique of annual perfections, which highlights a particular house every year, it's you know, the perfection year starts on your birthday and ends on your birthday. So your birthday, or your birthday is sort of your personal astrological new year. So Angie's fourth house perfection year would have started August 2019, I believe so early 2020 would have been Angie's fourth house perfection year, Angie has Capricorn in the fourth house. So this would be a year ruled by Saturn. And it happened to be 2020. Of course, during the pandemic, we had Saturn, Jupiter, and Pluto all hanging out in Capricorn. So that whole cluster of planets would have been going right through Angie's fourth house and the fourth house is like one of the more active central houses in astrology and fourth house years, you know, can be described as a sort of turning point, often very eventful, often sort of indicating the end of an era in some way. There's a sense of endings with the fourth house. As well as you know, obviously connections to one's origins, family home issues of property issues of you know, private and inner life and all that kind of stuff can be really relevant. But you know, I think that fact that fourth house years do represent that sort of a turning point might be relevant here. And definitely, you know, having Saturn and Jupiter and Capricorn, transiting through there would have been really irrelevant as well. I know Jupiter is not super happy about being in Capricorn. And it was, it was not a good year for joy, or the kinds of things that Jupiter represents a sense of, you know, well being and optimism and all that early 2020 was not high point for any of those things.

Kyle Pierce 1:03:05

Yeah, it was quite a configuration in Capricorn in early 2020. And just having that as your activated sign is gonna bring a lot of those topics and themes. signified by those transits to you personally, it's going to be showing up more vividly in your life. And while it may not have been like necessarily directly tied to COVID, it sounded like was kind of preceding it a bit. All that heavy Capricorn stuff was happening in your activated sign, like I said, So it's showing up in your life, visibly, it's an angular house. So it's going to be visible, not just in like the fourth house, specifically, but throughout your life. And then one of the things that we would probably look for generally, certainly I would, is how the themes of the transits happening either to the house that's been perfected, or the ruling planet, Saturn, in this case, how those transits tie into themes already in the chart. And like Tristan mentioned earlier, we have Jupiter and Saturn in the 12th house. And mainly when we're looking at issues around health issues, health problems, my eyes neatly drawn to you know, what's going on with the sixth house. And while you don't have anything natively in the sixth house, jupiter rules your sixth house, and it is in the 12. So there's already sort of an indication in the chart that there could be some issues around health problems because the 12 house is a house that deals with things that tend to work against you in life. So while the 12 house is a little more associated with matters of the mind, the sixth house is more considered with matters of the body and having that sort of access, sort of working in concert. There's a bit of a mind body connection to health problems. Which means naturally, you know, when we're sick, we're not so happy mentally, or emotionally. But also, you know, when we're not happy or healthy emotionally that can bleed into our physical health as well. So I would say that theme is going to be, you know, emphasize for your for you. But we also have Jupiter, early in 2020 was going through Capricorn science not super happy and in Jupiter in Virgo in your chart is not necessarily super happy either. Not that it can't do a lot of great things in Virgo, even in the 12th house, but it's just one of the signs that is a little more difficult for Jupiter to operate in. But we also have the Jupiter and Saturn together in your 12th house. And then sort of repeat that in early 2020, where Jupiter and Saturn were together in Capricorn. And then we also had Mars and the south node, and there would have been eclipses was that then in December of 2019, we would have had an eclipse. And then later on that year in cancer, we would have had the eclipses

Tristan Paylor 1:06:13

at the nodes are going through Cancer and Capricorn at that time, right? Yeah. So then you've also got a node going through the fourth house in Capricorn, which everything we talked about preceding this question may be relevant here as well, that sense of impermanence and you know, especially with the fourth house being kind of house that represents the end of an era and the nodes representing the end of an era in a sense, sort of like I can, I can imagine it feeling a bit like suddenly reaching your limits, you've got Saturn, you've got the nodes, you've got the sign of Capricorn being activated, you kind of got all this symbolism going on of reaching your limits or like encountering your limits in some way. And sort of hitting like a barrier where it's like, you can't sort of get can't get further than this, because something is stopping you. You know, it sounds like in this case, it was physical illness where there's only so much you can do when you're sick, that kind of you know, puts everything and life on hold or delays it.

Kyle Pierce 1:07:16

One, yeah, everything in Capricorn, to me it was opposing your cancer planets, which you have Venus in cancer, which is the ruling planet of your first house. So it carries the significations for you as a person in many ways.

Tristan Paylor 1:07:32

The body to right the the health of the body is also relevant to the first house so you got the Saturn Jupiter opposition kind of facing down on you know the planet that represents your physical body and vitality.

Kyle Pierce 1:07:45

Yeah, there would have been eclipses around Venus as well as well as the moon which also carries a lot of the same significations is the first house body self sort of like a secondary you indicator in the chart generally. I mean, I would generally look for mentors regarding health, sixth house, first house, the moon, the ruler of the first house, all of its being pained beginning of that year, Mars was also going through Capricorn, it would have opposed Venus at one point and then the moon and it was just a lot of getting hit hard. I would say about those transits. Yeah, while that area of life is activated

Tristan Paylor 1:08:22

on the the midlife crisis piece to I'm thinking again of the fourth house and that turning point signification going through a phase of life, and then kind of hitting a crisis point. And questioning, you know, how, where you were before and where you're going now. I can definitely see the fourth house being connected to that sort of like you reach a certain age and it forces you to think differently about your life and, you know, cue the midlife crisis kind of thing. There's also, I mean, a sense I get just from looking at your birth chart on its own, not even you know, considering transits and perfections Angie is, you know, it looks like the birth chart of somebody who is extremely giving and service oriented and self sacrificing, you know, that stellium in cancer in the moon right on the midheaven sort of like, you know, the midheaven is your public face and sort of, you know, how your reputation and what other people expect of you. And you know, and you've got the moon in cancer right on the midheaven beautiful penthouse. Yeah, I mean it's it's very lovely and I imagine it's very lovely for you know, other people who you know, want their needs to be Yeah, who benefit from you know, your, your ability to empathize and look after their needs. And then you know, having Jupiter and Saturn in Virgo, which is also a very service oriented sign and the very service oriented, self giving self sacrificing 12th house was sort of like looking at at that in your chart. And then looking at the transits, I get this sense of now that you've sort of reached the limits of what you're capable of giving, maybe the demands of other people start to feel stifling, or the expectations are too high, you know, you can't, you're not in a position where you can just like, easily look after people anymore.

Kyle Pierce 1:10:32

Yeah, absolutely, that's a really good point. Because that fourth house year, having everything in Capricorn, just opposing everything in cancer, it's like, that like ability to be the caretaker, for everyone else, it's like under attack, you know, it's like, suddenly you have to, like focus on yourself more at a time where, on the one hand, for probably a lot of people, it was sort of represented an opportunity to focus more on ourselves and our own needs, for a lot of people not having to go to work. But I also know, from my own experience, also being a single parent is that suddenly, you know, you had to spend all you had to play like all the roles for your your children, you know, when you when everybody had to stay home, and they weren't going to school anymore, maybe you're not going to work anymore, maybe you are working from home as well. And suddenly, you have to play teacher and do 24 hour care for your kid. And that's hard. That's a lot of pressure to be put under. And then when you're already, you know, going through health issues as well. It's like, enough's enough, right?

Tristan Paylor 1:11:44

Yeah, totally. And then when you know, that perfection year ended, it's almost like there isn't much of a break. Because you know, the way the Zodiac works is that one Saturn ruled sign precedes the other, this whole three year period, really from 2019. Up until your upcoming birthday this year, every single one of those three years is ruled by a planet hanging out in your 12th house, the fourth house year that was you know, 2019 to 2020 was ruled by Saturn, and then the fifth house year, which would have been 2020 to 2021, the fifth house in Angies, turtles and Aquarius, so that's also ruled by Saturn in the 12th house. So again, you know, you're not really getting a break from either Saturnian themes or 12 House themes, which have a lot to do with, you know, delays and, and limits and obstacles and feeling kind of worn down or slowed down, you know, the 12th house is kind of like the waiting room of life. Like it's, it's a place where we can't really do much. And, you know, certainly health issues are one of those situations in life where, you know, it can feel kind of like being stuck in a waiting room, like, there's lots we would like to do, but our bodies are telling us like you need to slow down, you need to rest, you need to shut things out, you need to shut down a little bit. And that's a very, very 12th House theme. And then, you know, your current perfection year is a sixth house, perfection year. So that, of course, you know, directly has to do with issues of health. And you know, the limits of the body and just sort of like the ongoing maintenance needs of the body, like things that you know, are not necessarily fun, like, eating a really delicious meal is a fun maintenance needed of the body. But you know, like having to take regular medication or having, you know, like I I've pinched a nerve and had to do like regular, you know, wrist rolls and elbow stretches and stuff. Like I would really rather be doing anything else. But that but those kinds of activities are all sixth house related.

Kyle Pierce 1:13:59

Oh, yeah. But I mean, there's a positive element to that, too, is that while the sixth house tends to indicate illness in areas that were vulnerable to illness or injury, where we also do the work of preventing it or managing illness or health issues, and then having you know, Jupiter, going through the successes at the same time, is potentially very helpful. Wow. You know, it is it's bringing up those health problems. It's bringing them up, it's bringing them up to be identified and perhaps addressed in a maybe more meaningful, constructive and kind of concrete way. Because, you know, maybe leading up to the this period, it's been even harder to to access maybe what the issues specifically were, but I would think that you know, Jupiter going through that house, being in its own sign Pisces, which traditionally, it gives you the opportunity to do the work, find the remedies that are going to help you in the long term and then, you know, finally, after this year, you're going to go into a seventh house here, which is finally going to take the pressure off of your 12th house, you're going to be moving from a 12th house space, operating from a 12th house space of, you know, limited agency, to a really essence of first house space, because you do have the ruler of that seventh house, being Mars and Mars is a planet of action. And, you know, taking the bull by the horns, if you will. And Mars can tend to overdo those things. But it's a rather dramatic shift and change of pace from all that 12 House emphasis over the last three years.

Tristan Paylor 1:15:43

Yeah, it is very interesting. And I mean, I, you know, I'm very, I'm always hesitant to do any sort of prognosticating because, you know, there's no way of knowing for certain how things will go or you know, when current circumstances will wrap up, but it is interesting that at least astrologically, you know, your your birthday this year, will be astrologically a turning point away from a phase of life that really has to do with kind of sitting in the waiting room and towards a more active engaged phase of life. So, you know, hopefully that's a positive sign.

Kyle Pierce 1:16:21

Yeah, definitely. It had minimum been different. I mean, it's, it may have other challenges of its own. But I would say that I like planets in the in the first house better than the 12th House overall, when it comes to being able to do something about about a problem. Yeah, 12 house problems, you have to kind of just wait out a lot of the time, it's more about managing how the problem affects you managing your response to things as opposed to actually being able to alter the circumstances, not that you have no ability in the 12 that just it's, you know, you've used the analogy before Tristan, it's like the walking in snowshoes, you know, up a snowy mountain. While the first house is like, you're in the driver's seat, maybe not necessarily a new Mercedes, but a car with gas in the tank that will get you you know, moving forward a lot faster.

Tristan Paylor 1:17:11

Yeah, you're not hiking through 10 feet of snow anymore.

Kyle Pierce 1:17:15

Yeah, yeah, I

Tristan Paylor 1:17:16

think that's a really good point about this, the sixth than the 12 houses is that when we're in those places, we don't necessarily feel like we have as much control over our external circumstances. And, you know, the sort of positive thing about the six and 12 houses, and about phases of life where those topics are highlighted is that they can kind of force us to turn within and, you know, find ways of changing our internal reactions to external circumstances. So that when we do run up against, you know, suffering, or delays of one kind or another in our lives, we're able to meet those with a little more inner peace. So focusing on like focusing on your spiritual well being, I think is always advised when it comes to yours, where the six then 12 houses are highlighted in your chart.

Kyle Pierce 1:18:20

Yeah. That seems to be kind of indicated as well in the chart, because you do have this what we would call a mutual reception by exultation between Mercury and Jupiter, where Jupiter is in the sign that mercury exalts and its favorite sign in Virgo Mercury is in the sign of Jupiter's exaltation in cancer. So it's like they have access to what the other planet really wants, what what it really needs to do its job really well. And it's sort of through their interaction, that you're able to maybe get some better expressions from both planets, and Mercury ruling your ninth house, which has a lot to do with spirituality, you know, travel and lots of things, astrology, for one, but ninth house and 12th house can work really well together in that they both have that spiritual component, but the ninth house it's like getting more outside help from organizations or institutions that you know, maybe have a set of beliefs already prepackaged for you to digest and consume and incorporate into your own life. So that could have been a major theme as well throughout the last few years is like finding ways of coping with the challenges that you've been dealing with while you know while doing what you can about them like when you can but in the meantime, like just having to find ways to get through.

Tristan Paylor 1:19:51

I an acquaintance of mine is a member of Buddhist order. And she practices regular meditation. And I remember her telling me the story about how she came to this particular Buddhist organization and started this meditation practice. And she was going through a really rough patch in her life, where, you know, her partner was working a really demanding career, and they had kids. And so she was kind of like, stuck with a disproportionate amount of the childcare. And, you know, health problems and problems at home, and just like, a cluster of stuff, just kind of all you know, when it rains, it pours kind of that kind of thing. Oh, yeah. And she started doing this practice. And she said, Nothing in my life changed. You know, I still had my husband was working hours that were too long. And, you know, I was still like, doing too much of the domestic labor and the childcare. And, you know, I was still having these issues with my health and with these other areas of life, but my attitude towards it changed. That was the thing that changed. And she was, you know, able to cope with the circumstances of her life. So I thought, I always thought that was a really good way of putting it, where it's like, none of those other things change, like this practice didn't suddenly turn everything in my life around where now you know, my partner is at home, and you know, the car isn't broken down. Yeah, and all the problems have stopped happening. But I am more capable of responding to those problems. And I just feel like that's sort of a message that comes directly from the sixth house, like that's somebody who's deep in the sixth house who has that kind of insight.

Kyle Pierce 1:21:44

Oh, yeah, sixth, and 12th. Really, I mean, it's about accepting the things that you can't change. And really, it's through accepting it that you often can, or just deal with it in a way that's better.

Tristan Paylor 1:21:57

Well, another thing I noticed, too, about Jupiter, who is Angie's Timelord, this year, it's the sixth this year, the sixth house, Nanji stars Pisces, you know, and Jupiter is in the 12th house where, you know, things are slower and not as active and not as visible, not as obvious. But Jupiter is really, really closely configured to your midheaven and G, like within less than two degrees. And that kind of brings Jupiter out of the 12th house and out into the open. But it's also one of the symbols that I think makes me think like, other people's expectations of you, maybe are a really big theme. And one of the sort of conflicts going on at this time. Because the midheaven can really represent like, where the midheaven is not a solitary spot, it is where we are most visible in the world. And there are a lot of relationships that are represented by the midheaven. And, you know, the midheaven us, you know, the person that other people see, that gets wrapped up in other people's expectations. And if you know something in our inner lives, or in our personal lives, you know, down in the fourth house area of the chart changes. Sometimes people that we encounter in that sort of midheaven area of our life have a hard time handling those changes, because they've come to expect a certain they've come to expect us to play a certain role in their lives. So I think some of some of those themes get potentially brought in to these issues as well with Jupiter being so closely configured to the midheaven. And Jupiter being activated is just, you know, the extent to which other people see you as you know, somebody who provides them with something or who is, you know, taking care of their needs, or who you know, does certain things at a certain time. And, you know, maybe that's just not either possible or not even desirable anymore. Like, you know, I don't know the specifics of your midlife crisis, but I know you like identity issues, when we go through those sort of like, major crises at different age points in our lives, there's often that sort of crisis of identity of like, who am I? Who do other people expect me to be and can I continue to, like play that role in the world? Or is it time for some kind of shift? And if my role in the world changes, you know, what does that Who am I now? And, you know, what kind of relationships will best support that like, are there people or their relationships that need to go? Are there new relationships that need to be sought out? You know, it's it can be a very, like destabilizing kind of experience.

Kyle Pierce 1:24:54

Definitely. And I mean, it could be a theme that sort of come up When you get a planet in the 12th house that has that really nice mitigation like that, that connection with the midheaven, you get a little more of the positive 12th house, where it's people kind of like working behind the scenes, or spending more time alone, you know, like, doing their best work when they're alone in their office. And having such a stacked 10th house too. And having the ruler of your first house Venus in the 10th house, it could be very much like a taking on more of a backseat role that might end up helping it's one of many possibilities, like just imagining, possibly, like getting to work from home, but like, maybe no children are at school and actually getting to spend that time alone to recharge. And that like really just like being able to, yeah, let go of like you were saying trust and let go of maybe some of the roles that you had been playing before that were becoming too burdensome or too, too heavy. Maybe you're just overdoing it over stretching yourself. Having Mars in the first house can often indicate that that overdoing it quality. So just thinking about how Jupiter in the 12th house can work really constructively is like taking more time to rest. Maybe not taking on projects or burdens or responsibilities that you know already are going to be too much for you and are going to be hazardous to your your health or mental health.

Tristan Paylor 1:26:25

And imagine it's not easy for Mars in the first house person to sit still all the time. Yeah, that's a very placement like it's time. Oh, yes.

Kyle Pierce 1:26:39

That could be like maybe one of the takeaways from the last few years is like the the lesson that like oh, yeah, I have to rest I have to 12th house. I have to listen to tend to my mental health. My physical health I have to, to rest. Honestly. 12th house has a lot to do with sleep.

Tristan Paylor 1:26:56

Does does the house of sleep.

Kyle Pierce 1:26:57

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And what's having like the Jupiter in the 12th. And Mars, Mars being a more challenging planet during the day and the first and then Jupiter being a very positive planet during the day in the 12th is like, yeah, overdoing things, and burning out and learning like, Oh, yes, rest is what I need. I will rest now I will not, you know, Mars 24/7.

Tristan Paylor 1:27:29

I mean, they, you know, the flip side maybe is that it's not always, I mean, I guess you know, the first house is our agency. But I also think you know, and I see a prominently placed Mars it's like, is the person driving themselves too hard or circumstances demanding too much. Sometimes it's not holding hands, it's not a choice, you just kind of end up burdened with more than you can handle and it's through no fault of your own. And that can be really tough. And I just, I really hope that you know, you've got good people around you, Angie, and that you're able to find more good people who are able to like give you support so that you can rest because that is definitely the 12th House cure is getting enough rest. And you know that also, in order for us to be able to rest, we need people around us who are able to take care of stuff. If it's all if everything is on our shoulders, then we can never rest even if our minds and bodies really need it. So I really hope you got people around you who can support you and help take care of some of those responsibilities and tasks, so you can get some well deserved rest because being a single parent is no joke.

Kyle Pierce 1:28:39

Oh, yeah, yeah, I struggle with this all the time, where I actually do have a lot of things that I have to do. And it is hard to find the time to rest. But I know that I get in my own head about it, and create more work for myself than then, if necessary. And it's like giving myself permission to rest. I know, it's something that I have to do often. So you know, the degree to which you can take those opportunities to rest like take them and sometimes having nice planets in the 12 can indicate having other people take care of things for you. Sometimes, you know, not necessarily it will show up as sometimes as people who like people who are working against you end up working against themselves. They end up undoing themselves so that you don't have to

Tristan Paylor 1:29:30

thanks thanks again for your question Angie and for sharing your chart with us and I sincerely wish you all the best and hope that your upcoming Mars year things get a little more fun and exciting and and a little less stressful for you.

Kyle Pierce 1:29:46

Rest up before it starts. But yeah, definitely you know and stay in touch. Let us know how things go. And speaking of which, we we had Jessica for Um, an episode we did shoot, when was that November? I want to say, October. So why Pluto episode? And Jessica had sent us a question about finding, you know what her birth chart was saying about being in a career that was sort of lacking fulfillment. And we did get a message from Jessica recently. And she said that things have gotten better. We had suggested that she possibly among other things, might enjoy consulting, instead of engineering, which was the engineering was the career path that she was not very happy with. And that she was offered and accepted a job in consulting, all in about this about two months after we did that episode. And it was very much out of the blue. And she is in a just a much happier place now in the new career field. So I know that made me really happy to hear, it's always nice to hear how things pan out for people,

Tristan Paylor 1:30:59

it was really lovely to hear back from Jessica, it's, it's really nice to, you know, as an astrologer, you often hear from people when they're going through something rough. You know, people don't often seek out tarot reader or an astrologer because something's just not going quite right. And that's, you know, it's usually those times in life when you want a little more insight or guidance from someone inside yourself. And you know, so it's nice to hear positive stories, you know, and hear from, you know, somebody who came for a reading and you know, they were going through a crisis, and then a couple months later, you know, things get better. It's really nice to hear those stories.

Kyle Pierce 1:31:42

Oh, yeah, totally. You know, it's, you know, people tend to come when they're going through the struggles. And while you might see things getting better, you don't necessarily hear from them. How it panned out. So it's really lovely to hear that. Yeah. And it's really, you know, why? Why would you strategy, why did the show? Well, I think what that will wrap up the show anything, anything going on with interest in?

Tristan Paylor 1:32:07

And no, not really, I'm not doing consultations anymore, for the time being, because I have the North Node close to my midheaven. And Neptune is transiting through there. Apparently, my career choices are just always up in the air. So I made the decision that I want to pursue art, you know, I might have an opportunity to have some extra time to pursue something that you know, isn't necessarily going to pay the bills, but that really, really fulfills me. Yeah, so yeah, I'm going to switch focuses for a while and see how that goes. So you'll probably be hearing a bit less of me in the future. But yeah, I got I got nothing to share with you, if you want astrology services, all of the burden and pressure is now on Kyle. Oh,

Kyle Pierce 1:33:02

god. Yeah, well, I um, I definitely want to be seeing some of the fresh Tristan art. Hopefully, we'll see some of that on Instagram or, or some new Instagram, maybe, yeah, you can come up with some really other cool Instagram name for art instead. So I like the bad sign thing.

Tristan Paylor 1:33:24

I know I'm proud of that name. And I am not going to be able to I don't I don't think I'm going to be able to one up that with an art account. So I'll probably I'll probably keep sharing, like I do my sign

Kyle Pierce 1:33:35

design. Sound design? Yeah.

Tristan Paylor 1:33:40

I do keep a Grimoire. of planetary magic that I do. And you know, still actively practicing planetary magic. So I'll probably still post some pages from that up on my astrology Instagram account. So I don't think it's going to totally fall out of use, but it will be less about you know, astrology, writing and astrology, consulting and more about magic and pretty pictures.

Kyle Pierce 1:34:07

Well, it's for me, I am still offering consultations on my website, Kyle Pierce astrology.com. Let's see. I know that I already mentioned that the Neptune on my north node is manifesting in me just starting a lot of different projects, like all around it, but like, I know that not all of them are going to get done like I started designing some T shirts, which may or may not appear for sale in the future. You can go ahead and check it out. There might be some stuff up there, but lots of things in the in the can, some of which will see the light of day.

Tristan Paylor 1:34:44

I hope so. All right.

Kyle Pierce 1:34:46

Is there anything else we want to add? Totally check out. If you'd like talking astrology one on one about astrology or Tarot. Check out the three of wands club on the clubhouse app. love to have you there. Shay does the taro travels room every Thursday at 6pm. Eastern Standard Time. And Tristan nice to be doing the forecast every other week. And I'm gonna be doing a getting you know your birth chart group, either every Tuesday or every other Tuesday. It's hard to know I'm going to be a soccer coach this season. So my schedule is a little up in the air at the moment, but be fitting that in somewhere in the week. So if you want to join, we'll be going through a different house every week. And we'll talk about how to read for that house and your own charts and talk about me and what's shown up in our charts and, you know, together we'll learn more about our own charts and everyone else's and astrology in general. And it's good time. Thanks for listening. And we'll see you all next time.

Tristan Paylor 1:35:43

And thank you, Colin and Angie for your fantastic questions.

Kyle Pierce 1:35:47

Yes, thank you Colin.

Tristan Paylor 1:35:53

You have a question you would like to hear answered on astrology hotline. Email us at astrology hotline pod@gmail.com

Transcribed by https://otter.ai