The Houses I - Astrology 101

Tristan Paylor 0:04

Hello and welcome to astrology hotline, the podcast where we answer your burning astrology questions. In keeping with our latest series, we're doing something a little bit different. Instead of answering listener questions, we are doing a series on astrology basics. So we have gone over the planets, we've gone over the signs and now it is time for the houses. Houses. As you can hear Kyle is here with me. Hello, Kyle.

Kyle Pierce 0:36

Kyle's in the...house. I'm going to totaly delete that.

Tristan Paylor 0:39

Oh no, you are not I will not allow you to delete that. That stays in. Yeah. All right. And our special guest today is Shay a, an incredible tarot reader who has come to join us to share some of her Tarot expertise, linking astrology with the Tarot as we talk about the houses. So thank you for joining us, Shay.

Kyle Pierce 1:07

Thanks for joining us, Shay.

Shay 1:07

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. I love listening to the show and excited to actually get to talk to and talk so that people can hear me and not just, you know, talk to myself as your I can add comments,

Kyle Pierce 1:22

I like imagining that.

Shay 1:27

I mean, honestly, sometimes I'm messaging Tristan during episodes all about them.

Tristan Paylor 1:33

there's something like kind of meta about that, like, listening to two of me simultaneously. Well, I met like, yeah, me from that you're listening to it's time travel, you're listening to past me, and present me simultaneously?

Shay 1:49

Through the magic of technology.

Kyle Pierce 1:52

My brain is bending.

Shay 1:55

Shall we get into our episode?

Kyle Pierce 1:58

No, no, no, no, we need to talk about this more.

Tristan Paylor 2:03

I was gonna ask if you wanted to introduce yourself, share and talk to us a bit about how you got into tarot and all that good stuff.

Unknown Speaker 2:13

Sure. So I started reading Tarot about two years ago. So I've been reading it for a couple years and started as a way to enhance my journaling practice. I enjoy writing. So this was a fun way to use the cards to help get some more insight. And then I just enjoyed it so much that I started reading for friends, and then reading for other people and creating Tarot spreads, and sets of questions. And, of course, then that led to getting interested in astrology as well. And it's just gone from there. So although my astrology knowledge isn't quite up to where you guys are, I'm hoping I can add some, add some fun insight and connect some of the meanings of the cards with Gauss today. Totally. So thanks for having me.

Tristan Paylor 3:09

Thank you for joining us. This is exciting.

Kyle Pierce 3:11

Thank you for joining us. Yeah, I know, I totally know that I'm not the one who came up with this term. But I you know, it's, it makes sense that people say it or, you know, maybe I made it up, I don't know. But I like to think of tarot as like the gateway drug of astrology, I mean the gateway drug of divination, really. And it really is because while the Tarot is very much derived from, uh uses, incorporates a ton of symbolism from astrology, it's very deeply rooted in astrology. It's also deeply rooted in like a ton of other spiritual traditions will be like the potluck of spirituality is the tarot draws in symbolism from everywhere, and they kind of exhibited good it's like a good gateway into lots of different day, whether divination or spiritual ways of thinking.

Shay 4:06

Totally. As soon as I found out that there were certain correspondences between the symbolism in the tarot cards and astrology then I felt like I needed to learn more about astrology too.

Tristan Paylor 4:15

So yeah, you get one set of tarot cards. And next thing you know, you have 10 sets of runes and 50 sets of cards and oracle cards and your desk looks like a conspiracy board of birth charts and event charts. It all snowballs out of control.

Kyle Pierce 4:34

Imagining like a propaganda film like the equivalent of like Reefer Madness, for astrology.

Shay 4:41

Astrology,

Kyle Pierce 4:42

you buy one deck, a deck of cards, and suddenly you're wearing shawls and consulting with astrologers.

Shay 4:49

Oh, my goodness.

Tristan Paylor 4:50

Terrible.

Shay 4:52

Slippery slope.

Tristan Paylor 4:53

Speaking of consulting with astrologers, should we jump into the houses into our main astrological topic. Let's do it.

Shay 5:04

This wasn't our main topic. Yeah, sounds

Tristan Paylor 5:09

good. So I want to start us off just with some like basic background info on what the houses are and where they get their meaning and that sort of thing before we dive into the houses themselves. So I guess the principal question is, what are houses in astrology? Oh, are you asking to buy? I can answer my own question. It just feels that a rhetorical question feels kind of lonely.

Kyle Pierce 5:38

Yeah, so basically, the houses in astrology are derived from the relationship to the horizon, essentially. Yeah, take it away, Tristan,

Tristan Paylor 5:55

you're off to a good start. Because that is totally what the houses are, they're defined by their relationship to the horizon. So we went over the signs, which are similar to houses and that like, there are places and they are places that celestial bodies move through. But in the case of the signs of the zodiac, there are divisions of the ecliptic, which is an imaginary path around the whole earth, that, you know, it appears that the sun moves along that path. And so as the sun moves through the signs of the zodiac, it traces out an entire year from beginning to end. Whereas, you know, the houses are also places that the planets go. But the houses represent the sky, both above and below the horizon. So they're just a way of dividing up the sky. And so the sun will move through all 12 of the houses over a 24 hour period. So they're sort of they're a visual representation of a smaller cycle of time. And when you look at a birth chart, you know, you'll see a big circle that that looks like it's divided into 12 slices of pie. And, you know, the houses that are above the ascendant descendant axis are the houses above the horizon. So that's, you know, the visible sky. And then the other ones are, what is invisible that sort of beneath you. And so it divides up this whole big circle of both the sky you can see and the sky beneath your feet. Yeah, and that's

Kyle Pierce 7:33

fundamentally where they sort of derive their meaning. Because, you know, the sign of Scorpio always means, you know, the things that Scorpio means for the most part. But what it means to say, you personally, in your birth chart has everything to do with where it is relative to the horizon, which is where we get the houses,

Tristan Paylor 7:57

mats, signs, or where the celestial bodies are in the ecliptic houses are where the celestial bodies are relative to your local horizon. And that local part is really key because something neat about the houses is that they bring astrology down to earth, the houses show you the relationship between your local horizon at the time and place you were born in the case of a birth chart, and the ecliptic, where the eastern horizon intersects with the ecliptic is what defines the ascendant and the very first house.

Kyle Pierce 8:32

Yeah, perhaps we should talk about how the houses get their meaning. Are we there yet? Yeah, let's do a little more.

Tristan Paylor 8:39

Now. I think I think that covers it.

Unknown Speaker 8:41

Did you want to mention the different house systems? Yeah, there are different houses. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Tristan Paylor 8:46

Let's mention that briefly. Yeah.

Kyle Pierce 8:50

Yeah, so there are many different house systems that are basically just different ways of organizing the Zodiac into 12 different houses. So while here on astrology hotline, we prefer to use the whole sign house system as it is the oldest house system and the best one

Tristan Paylor 9:12

isn't this the like, older is better? There's a name for this fallacy.

Kyle Pierce 9:18

No, yeah, my logic for the whole sign house system being the best is really not related to it being the oldest. I just tried like a bunch of them and whole sign just works. And it kind of makes intuitive sense. And I sort of like to keep I like to overcomplicate astrology sometimes astrology is already very complicated on its own. But I like to keep you know the symbolism, at least them deriving meaning from consistent and maybe not coming from I don't know that this is not going to actually make any sense because really fucking abstract Ride for math, you know, it's so, you know, it just works better. You know, I'm a practical that way. But there's you know, there's a lot to other house systems and actually some house systems are using different types of astrology, such as was regio Montana's is really popularly used in horror area astrology, which is basically casting a chart for a question to get the question, you know, you cast the chart and you read the chart for your answer. Anyway. Really it started with the whole sign house system with the first sign, the sign that is rising over the horizon at any given moment being the first house. And really from there, you derive all the other houses, you know, the one that comes after that is the second house, the one that comes after the second is the third and so on and so on. But then you also get plus Sidious, which I think is a relatively newer one, compared to a lot of other house systems. That there's a name for it, you know, interesting where it's deriving the houses from the angles, the mid the quadrant? Houses, yes, it's a quadrant based there a quadrant based house systems. Once you tell us about quadrant based houses,

Tristan Paylor 11:17

well, I wasn't I wasn't gonna get into a whole thing about different systems because they are really abstract, like they're very mathematical. They're, it's like using it's different ways of looking at astronomy in order to divide the space relative to the horizon. So it would take an entire episode to get into it. But I did want to mention it just because if somebody is new to astrology, and casting their chart for the first time, and maybe going to an astrologer for the first time, they're going to run into different systems have setting up the houses, and that can be confusing at first. So just to sort of be aware of that. And I will include some links in the show notes. If people want to know more about different house systems, if you want to do a deep dive into how how they are constructed and what they mean. And you know, do some research to figure out if you have a preference for host system, then refer to the show notes. And if you are if you are doing chart for yourself on astro.com, the default will be placidus. So that will probably be the host system you're most familiar with. That I think that's all I really wanted to say on that was just put it out there as a thing that people should know. Happens in astrology just to complicate it even more, because it wasn't complicated enough already.

Kyle Pierce 12:38

Are you sure we can't complicate it a little more? Really, really wouldn't?

Shay 12:42

Probably good.

Kyle Pierce 12:44

Yeah. Yeah. So it'd be getting into the House meetings.

Shay 12:50

Yeah. So how do the houses get their meaning?

Tristan Paylor 12:53

Yeah. I knew I was like, I know it's gonna be good to have a school teacher on with me, because I do like the Sunday School teacher thing. And I was like, I will finally have somebody. Yeah. Understand. The way I frame things.

Kyle Pierce 13:10

Like, always wanted to be a teacher. And never, I actually never got to be one. So I guess. But, but you guys do. And that was my chance.

Tristan Paylor 13:19

I feel like I feel like you would be I believe in you. Yeah, I feel like you'd be the like, cool. Eccentric history professor. Kind of like, like you would go off topic like you go off of your lesson plan. Oh, yeah. What you talk about would be more interesting than the actual lesson plan. So your students would love it, but your supervisors would probably not love it.

Kyle Pierce 13:41

I just a year on reading my fantasy, it was already constructed. In my mind. I was like, oh, yeah, staff is gonna hate me. Especially supervisors, like

Tristan Paylor 13:52

students are gonna love it. They're gonna be like, whatever Kyle talks about is fascinating. And I'm going to remember it forever, but it's not going to be like this. It won't be on the exam.

Kyle Pierce 14:02

There's a what is it right like a rate your professor? There's a hotness what is it called? is there's a site, you can read the hotness of your professor. Wow, guys. Yeah.

Tristan Paylor 14:14

I don't know how I feel about this. Yeah. And

Kyle Pierce 14:17

I was like, That's my actually my real goal. I just want to be I want to be the hot professor has everything to do with being the cool Professor really, at the end of the day? If you're cool, then

Shay 14:29

if you're cool, you're also hot. How does that work?

Tristan Paylor 14:31

Those two qualities overlap even though they're opposite.

Kyle Pierce 14:35

And as I'm as I'm saying this out loud though, that sounds really creepy. That's not what happened my

Shay 14:41

let's not go down that path. And so speaking of astrologist boundaries,

Tristan Paylor 14:49

speaking of boundaries, the boundaries of the house well the meanings meanings and houses right how do they what is the source of their being? thing, and like, probably the primary and original way of determining what those different sections of the sky represent comes from the motion of the Sun over the course of a day. So that's a term referred to as diurnal motion. The sun, in a 24 hour period rises, you know, in the northern hemisphere, at least over the eastern horizon. You know, it culminates, you know, around noon at the height of the sky, and then it sets. And then at some point, you know, it reaches solar midnight, where it says far beneath the horizon as it can possibly get from your point of view. And so when you're looking at the houses, it can kind of help to sort of reduce them to like a cross shape almost where like the left arm of the cross represents like the beginning, and something coming into being like the sun rising. And then the top of the cross is like, you know, the sun at its height, everything's very bright and visible. And then the right arm of the cross is where the sunsets and things are kind of dying away and getting darker. And then the the bottom of the cross is like, the darkest point, the sun is invisible. And so you can already imagine that, like, there's a lot of symbolic meaning that comes from just what position of the sun over a 24 hour cycle each house represents.

Kyle Pierce 16:26

Yeah, so really, I mean, you're deriving a lot of meaning just from the signs that are on the angles, sign that as rising, the sign that is at the lowest point below the earth sign that is setting in the west, and the sign that is at the top of the sky, the 10th sign. And then you derive a ton of meaning from what are called the angular triads. So the the signs are houses, or places in relationship to the angular signs.

Tristan Paylor 17:00

So the angular houses or the angles are those points of the cross that I was mentioning. And that's the term because astrology is full of jargon, we have to call it something that no one knows the meaning of. So their angles. Yeah, but it's the the first, the fourth, the seventh and the 10th. Houses, if you're looking at a chart, those are the angular houses. And anything that's in those houses, has a lot of visibility, it has a lot of opportunity to act. One of the words for the angular houses from ancient astrology was pivots, so they're sort of like the turning points, they're where all the action happens. And they're the points that actually like move the narrative of the chart forward. And then what are called the succeeded houses sit next to the angular houses on one side, and those are the second, fifth, eighth, and 11th houses. And so each of those houses support the activities of the angular house they are closest to. So the second house is close to the first house. And so the second house is what supports the first house and the 11th House supports the 10th house, and so on. And so if you have planets in those houses, they do have a lot of opportunities to act and sort of make themselves very visible in the outer world. But they are nonetheless responsible for supporting the activities going on in the angular houses. And then the the cadent houses are on the on the other side of the angle, and those are the third six, nine, and 12. And planets that land in those cadent houses have a little bit less visibility and freedom to act and the cadent houses kind of wrap up the topics of the angular house they're closest to so they represent like a transition or a decline or sort of a breakdown. So whatever was started in the angular house, is sort of like broken down and, and transitions into something else in the cadent houses.

Kyle Pierce 19:10

Yeah, one thing I would like to just think of the whole thing was actually kind of how it was conceived. And Greek or Hellenistic astrology is that thing, the steering the helm of the ship, and how, you know, they'll usually have the like spokes on it, that you grip the helm with and turn the wheel if you want to steer your ship. That's kind of like what the the angles are like, the pivots. I was like the term pivot, but shape. When you're doing tarot readings, you kind of have cards in a spread that that are similar to that, right, that sort of anchor, the interpretation of the spread.

Shay 19:46

Yeah, you could have the signifying card to represent the person who is asking the question, there might be cards for the past, the present and the future. So yeah, there's some similarities between I mean, the way you can structure a Tarot reading or a Tarot Spread, and the structure of the astrology chart, yeah.

Tristan Paylor 20:09

I like that, like that way of looking at it.

Kyle Pierce 20:12

Well, then you can also further derive meaning from the houses by their relationship or their aspect to the first house.

Tristan Paylor 20:21

Yeah, the, if you're new new to astrology and new to aspects, this mate might make more sense after listening to the episode on aspects. But aspects are essentially relationships between planets are houses. And you know, they're, they're based off of geometrical configurations. So just as sort of a simple principle how house is configured to the first because the first is sort of the main, it's like the signifier card in a Tarot reading, like Shay was saying, it's, it's sort of like the center of everything in the start of everything. That's the context for everything else that goes on in the chart. So how will the other houses relate to it is part of how they get their general meaning. And there are four houses that don't actually make an aspect directly to the first house. So it's sort of like they're invisible from the first house. And those are the second, the sixth, the eighth and the 12th houses. And so they derive a bit of meaning from not making, not having this sort of geometrical relationship to the first house, and therefore representing things that are hidden or invisible, sometimes, you know, in, in traditional texts, especially things that are actively working against what's happening in the first house, yeah,

Kyle Pierce 21:39

derive a ton of meaning from those relationships. And then probably one of the other really important ways of deriving meaning with the houses is through derivative houses. So which is basically looking starting with a house, like, say, the eighth house, right? If you were to count from the seventh house, the eighth house is the second house from the seventh, the seventh traditionally is associated with other people or the marriage partner, while the second house in general is associated with assets, wealth money. So when you're using derived houses as an example, the eighth house because it's the second from the seventh, is very much associated with other people's money or you know, the spouse's assets or money.

Tristan Paylor 22:27

Totally. And you can you can get pretty wild with that.

Kyle Pierce 22:33

Yeah, it's one to not go too far. I think cuz some people will go really far with it. And sometimes you can't, depending. It's, it can get tricky, but it sort of depends on like the question, you're asking the chart, but that is maybe for another episode.

Tristan Paylor 22:52

Yeah. And I guess the last thing we wanted to talk about in terms of how the houses you know, come to me and what they mean is, in Hellenistic astrology, the planets were assigned to certain houses, where they were said to rejoice, and sorry, I need to clear my throat. So in, in, in Hellenistic astrology, the planets were assigned to houses where they were said to rejoice where they were said to be particularly happy. And there's a whole rationale for why certain planets go in certain houses, which I won't get into here, because it's a complicated topic, but there is a rationale for it. And I can include a link in the show notes as well if people are interested in learning more about how ancient astrologers determined which planets are happy in which houses but I think Shay, you wanted to talk a bit about the, the taro associations with the planets as we go over the planetary joys.

Shay 24:01

Yes, so with the planets are associated with different cards in the tarot deck. So for example, and we'll go into I'll go into this a little bit more as we're looking in the different houses and the different joys of the different houses. But just so you kind of have an overview. So Mercury is related to the magician, Venus is related to the Empress Mars with the tower, Jupiter with the Wheel of Fortune, Saturn with the world. The moon is associated with the High Priestess and the sun with the sun. And those are just for the traditional planets that other planets have associations as well, but just sticking to the ones that have planetary joys. Those would be the major ones that we're gonna look at through as we go through the houses.

Kyle Pierce 24:50

I'm getting excited because I'm already like, thinking of all these different ways that like the associated planet and house like have similar meanings.

Unknown Speaker 24:59

It's It's fun, because sometimes the meanings are really obvious. And sometimes it takes a little bit more diving in and what I was looking at the planetary joys for the different houses, and then the card associated with that planet, it was the same thing, like sometimes the meaning just really jumped out. And sometimes it took a little bit more digging to kind of find that correlation. So it's gonna be a fun

Kyle Pierce 25:24

one to discuss as we go along. occurs to me that you know, there are other ways that the houses are have meanings derived from them that aren't, there may be newer, you know, one very popular one in modern astrology is the, the 12 Letter alphabet, which is essentially deriving meaning from the fact that Aries is the first sign of the zodiac, so Aries having some symbolic overlap with the first house in Taurus with the second house, and so on, and so forth. And it's probably just worth mentioning that that is a newer addition to the ways of conceiving the houses. And while I don't, not someone who condemns that system, that way of looking at it, because it's not, I really don't think it's useless. It's just like, any way of looking at the houses. It's one of many ways, you know, it's not a good idea to get too hung up on, on, right and wrong. Yeah, or well, or on these really specific, I don't know, on these ways of approaching the houses, like, you know, similar with like, Tarot and astrology, sometimes, there's ways that like, The symbolism is really, really meshes and is like, wow, you know, that vibes super well. But you don't want it to be your only way of deriving meaning from the houses, or vice versa. deriving the meaning of the tarot card from the house that it might be associated with, you know?

Shay 26:58

Yeah, that's right, it's not gonna work out perfect every time. But it can give an additional layer of meaning

Kyle Pierce 27:05

exactly an additional layer of meaning.

Tristan Paylor 27:08

And like looking at at the same thing from multiple perspectives is always useful, especially when it comes to divination. And so that's why I would advise, like, even if you find the 12 Letter alphabet system useful, I would really recommend not stopping there, but actually like learning the traditional meanings of the houses and the rationale for why the houses mean, what they do. And like looking at it from all of those different angles, because then you'll have like, the richest sort of understanding of the houses, when you're able to look at them from all these different perspectives, when you think about, you know, how do they relate to the motion of the Sun? And how do they relate to each other by aspect? And, you know, how do they relate to the signs and their order? And how do they relate to the planets that rejoice in them? Like, don't don't sort of limit your understanding to just one way of looking at them?

Kyle Pierce 28:05

Yeah, I think that my rule personally, with that is like, look for the meanings that really seem to be consistent and show up consistently. When interpreting charts and stuff are the ones that the meanings that show up all over the place. And like all the different ways of looking at at that. Yeah, house, like the second house in money, you know, it says, The house that supports the first house, what sports people, their stuff, the money, the food, the clothes, you know, the things that support them in a material way, if you want to use the 12 Letter alphabet, you know, towards the second sign, like food, and clothing, you know, luxury ship, this is the stuff that supports people Sure, receiving a train from the 10th house, you know, the proceeds of your work and career, you know, that goes into your wallet into your, your second house shows up all over the place. So that's one that you can kind of rest your head on a little.

Tristan Paylor 29:01

I like that a lot. It's sort of like the rule of threes, where if, if a meaning comes up three or more times, you know, from from different perspectives, then, you know, like, okay, that's definitely one of the core meanings.

Kyle Pierce 29:13

Yeah, that makes sense. And then the planetary joins them.

Tristan Paylor 29:18

Yeah, so I'll just briefly list which planets rejoice where and of course, as we get into the houses individually, we will get more into the connection between that planet and that house, and the tarot card that symbolizes that planet. So the first house Mercury rejoices there, and Mercury is the magician card in the tarot. So there's a little symbol set. The third house is where the moon was said to rejoice. The moon is associated with the third house, and Venus rejoices in the fifth house, Mars ARES rejoices in the sixth house. The sun rejoices in the ninth house. Jupiter rejoices in the 11th house. And finally, last but not least, Saturn rejoices in the final house of them all the 12th house.

Shay 30:16

Yeah. When you say rejoices, would that be like if the planet was a person that would be their favorite place to be like, not necessarily their home, but where they feel the most excited to visit? I don't know.

Kyle Pierce 30:28

It's a good point, or it's a good question.

Tristan Paylor 30:30

It is a really good question, because it does make me think like, what? What did the ancient astrologers specifically mean by rejoice?

Kyle Pierce 30:38

That's a good translation, like,

Tristan Paylor 30:42

thinking about the rationale for why they rejoice in those places. I think that that is a pretty good way of looking at it. Che. Again, I don't want to like go off on a 45 minute tangent about the rationale behind the planetary joys. But I think like, digging into that would be a good way of answering that question. And like the sort of rationale behind why are they associated with those parts of the sky? I do think like, there is some basis for saying that is where where they would most likely be in would be happiest? And what kind of how, like, they would be in an environment where there are a lot of activities that are suited to their nature.

Kyle Pierce 31:21

Yeah. The I would say that the simplest answer is that the, the meanings of those houses are most compatible with the meanings of those planets. Yeah, rejoicing?

Shay 31:32

Yeah, gotcha.

Kyle Pierce 31:34

That'll definitely be something we, we dig into

Tristan Paylor 31:37

how I was just, I was just gonna say, that was how I did my astrology course. Because there are a lot of like, 16 hour lectures in the Hellenistic astrology course. And I would just color while I listened to the lectures, and it helped me actually like, listen without getting distracted. It works.

Kyle Pierce 32:00

I wish I could take more classes in my car, where I

Tristan Paylor 32:05

certainly do your best listening. So I guess the last little sort of introductory thing I wanted to mention, just as a guideline, when you're actually looking at your chart, and you're like, Okay, I kind of get the idea of what the houses are and why people claim that they mean these things. But what do I actually do with them? When thing you can look at, is, what planet rules that house in your chart. So if you are a cancer rising, for example, and cancer is your first house, then you look at the planet that rules the sign of cancer, and that planet is in charge of your first house. So in that case, they would be the moon. And to get more information on your first house, you would look at what the moon is doing. Now, that also means that this is like a really common question that I think like everybody who's learning astrology asks, I think everyone who's first learning astrology, looks at their chart, sees that there are empty houses and goes, What's up with that wire houses in my chart empty, does that mean that like, there's nothing going on in that part of my life. And if a house is empty, it still has a ruler, it's still a part of your life. So you look to the planet that rules it to get an idea of what's going on there. If a house is empty, it definitely does not mean that it's not important, or that you don't have significant events happening in that area of your life. It is maybe a sign that it's you know, it's not necessarily the house that the planets are kind of saying really pay attention to this, like, this is really important for you to pay attention to when you're looking at your chart, you know, and you have like a stellium in a specific house and sort of like the the planets are saying, hey, like, really think about this thing. You know, the planets are your advice to like, really pay attention to this. That doesn't mean you

Kyle Pierce 33:56

got Yeah, center of gravity in your life, you know?

Tristan Paylor 34:00

Yeah, that's a good description. But that doesn't mean that the empty houses are not also important, or that you should ignore them. Or it's not, it's not a thing to worry about. Don't worry about your empty houses. Yeah.

Kyle Pierce 34:13

Yeah, if you don't have a planet in the first house, you're still a person.

Tristan Paylor 34:17

You still don't have a personality. All right. Is there anything else sort of introductory that either of you want to get into before we jump in to the meanings of the individual houses? I don't think so.

Shay 34:32

No, I think that that was a really good intro. I I feel like I know that I'm okay. Let's try this again. That was a really good intro. I feel like I learned a lot just Yeah.

Kyle Pierce 34:44

Should we start with the the first house or the first triad or?

Tristan Paylor 34:48

Yeah, so the, the way we're going to format this is we are going to go through the angular triads. So we're going to talk about the angular house In each triad, and then you know, talk about the houses that flank it. So we're not sort of going in order from one to 12. But you know, there'll be an opportunity to kind of talk about the houses in the context of how they relate to each other a little bit. So we will start with the first house, and then we will talk about the second and the 12th. After that. Sounds good.

Kyle Pierce 35:22

Let's kill it. Kill the end. It's the seventh pass, because that's what it is kind of. Yeah. Well, and I'm looking for I'm looking forward to that. Try it. Yeah. It's a fun. It's a fun one.

Tristan Paylor 35:39

Yeah, the scary triad.

Kyle Pierce 35:41

All the death and illness. And marriage.

Shay 35:44

Oh, my gosh, the triad of do

Tristan Paylor 35:46

the triad of doom? Yeah.

Shay 35:51

We should name them all. I mean, did they have names?

Kyle Pierce 35:53

Near what we call it? I haven't maybe we should this triad? Of Yeah, well, maybe one will emerge, you know, as we're, as far as we,

Tristan Paylor 36:09

it's good. It's the triad of the self, I think is one.

Kyle Pierce 36:13

Yeah. So easy. No, that

Shay 36:16

means just trying to find a clever way.

Kyle Pierce 36:20

Actually, you know, I should see what it actually is rising over the horizon right now. Pull up the chart for our beginning of our discussion. And that is really at the heart, I think of the first house. It is the beginning of things. It's the point of initiation. And really, in the broadest sense, it is the subject of you know, what is being born, what is coming into being rising over the horizon, coming from the darkness and going into the light into becoming visible.

Shay 36:52

That's so beautiful, merging and emerging as an individual.

Tristan Paylor 36:58

Yeah, sort of becoming a distinct person. The planet that rejoices there,

Kyle Pierce 37:04

Leo perfect.

Tristan Paylor 37:06

Is not not a planet.

Kyle Pierce 37:10

It's not a planet, but it's Leo

Tristan Paylor 37:13

rising. It's a good guy.

Kyle Pierce 37:18

It's a good first house sign. I mean, is one of the deals pretty much itself. Just why I tend to think that, you know, if you want to derive meaning from the houses, based on you know, first house being areas or whatever, do with all the signs, because you'll understand not only just the house is better, but you'll get a sense of what all different rising signs mean. Yes, because it's ultimately there is this is a tangent, which is my, my brand.

Tristan Paylor 37:49

New brand, solid brand,

Kyle Pierce 37:51

you know, Capricorn rising, it's gotta got Aries for the fourth house that got you know, the fiery heart of Aries kind of underlying things. But, you know, they're, they're sexy, because they got Libra on the 10th. Right.

Tristan Paylor 38:10

Oh, my God. Alright. The first house. That was I was going to talk a little bit about mercury, rejoicing there. And some other reason for mercury, loving the first house. Mercury, of course, is the God who exists in two different places at once, or acts as a bridge between places between worlds, you know, mercury, bridges, the world of the living with the underworld, and bridges, the celestial with the earthly. And so the first house is the horizon. It is the place where earth and sky meet. So, you know, as Mercury sort of straddles the earth and the sky and those two realms, the first house straddles those two realms. And so it is not just your appearance, or your body or your personality, it's everything it's the it's actually the whole you because it's where mind or spirit and body meet the sky being sort of like your spirit or like your intellectual and spiritual faculties and the earth being you know, your physical body and your instincts and all that stuff. They meet in the first house and create a whole person.

Kyle Pierce 39:26

Yeah. The first house in traditional astrology the first house was really the the new part of the chart, the first house and the ruling planet. And I think that is an important thing to note about the first house. I do, I think, in practice, like to look at the first house as kind of, I mean, really the starting point of view, I don't know it's like your, your, your essence, almost like what you're you're born with the sort of blank slate version of you, you know, you coming into being without all Some of the experiences maybe that you're going to have in all the other houses, because people end up being maybe more complex than just the planet that rules the first house or, you know, people are more more nuanced, obviously, because the experiences in life shape them. But the first house is really like the foundational self. In a sense, it's the canvas. Maybe that is being painted on by your life experience.

Shay 40:26

That's what you come in with.

Kyle Pierce 40:29

Yeah, it's like the first card in a Tarot Spread. Imagine.

Shay 40:35

Yeah, I'm also thinking about Mercury. Having its Troy there, Mercury being speaking and communicating, which is done by the individual. Yeah,

Tristan Paylor 40:47

that's a really good point.

Kyle Pierce 40:49

And one thing that, you know, interesting, I both talk a lot about the first house is it does kind of point to agency. The magician also it's really about using your will to manifest stuff, right? To combine elements from maybe above and below, you know, the, the heavens and the earth and use your, you know, your will and your resources to

Unknown Speaker 41:18

make it happen. Yeah, exactly. The magician is the card associated with mercury, which can be a card about what you're birthing into the world, what you're creating and manifesting. Yeah, so it's kind of coming from your mind into reality, which I think lines up really well with the topics of the first house.

Tristan Paylor 41:39

Yeah, I love that. They can also be a couple of ways that I look at the first house are that it is the context for everything that happens in your chart. So it's really useful for chart synthesis. You know, like a birth chart is obviously really complex and has a ton of moving parts. And then it's also constantly being affected by transiting planets as well. So it's not static, like it's constantly growing and changing. So it can be hard to kind of tie it all together. And I don't think like you always have to tie it all together into a neat little bow, because people are not easily sort of, you know, simplified that way. But it does help when you know, you're getting sort of overwhelmed with all of these different sometimes contradictory meanings that like, whenever you're interpreting sort of an individual thing and a chart or some piece of minutia, place it in the context of the first house. Yeah. So like, you know, if somebody has configuration between Mars and Saturn in their chart, that's going to look different for somebody with cancer rising, who's ruled by the moon and a certain sign that's going to look different for somebody with Leo rising, who's ruled by the sun and a certain sign that kind of that creates the the environment or the context in which the Mars Saturn configuration plays out?

Kyle Pierce 43:00

Yeah. Like, where is everything happening relative to the first house. And that is going to tell you a lot about how it shows up in the person's, you know, psychology in their life and their events of their life, and maybe their subjective experience of things. It's all really starts with the first house.

Unknown Speaker 43:20

Yeah, and you can also another fun way to kind of connect it to Taro is to look at the your ruler of the first house. So for example, my first house sign is Scorpio, which is traditionally ruled by Mars. So that would be a planet of like force and determination, maybe sometimes destruction, and card, never card associated. The card associated with Mars is the tower, which is a card of destruction and change. And so for me personally, having that in the first house that just makes me think of just I feel like my life has been a continuous cycle of tearing down and rebuilding by identity, going from monotheism to polytheism the different ways that I formed my identity through my work, like working at a restaurant to becoming a teacher becoming a virtual teacher, so I feel like I'm constantly tearing down and rebuilding, which I think goes really well with the tower. Oh, yeah. So you can look at you can look at what planet is ruling your first house and find the card associated with that to just get some more depth into what your first house might mean to you or how how it's shown up over the years.

Tristan Paylor 44:34

Yeah. So yes, that's the high The High Priestess for you and me, Kyle, the two cancer risings

Kyle Pierce 44:41

bases. Were mysterious sitting there looking like we know everything that's going on without actually telling. No, I mean, that's cool. I guess. The tower is like your first house seems cool to me. It's like the metal it's like Good. Yeah. It's like the rising sign that like brings the fucking ruckus, you know, to the party and like,

Shay 45:08

I'd rather not

Kyle Pierce 45:10

have. I think that is like the subjective Scorpio experience not to go on a tangent. But it is like, Yeah, everybody's like, Oh, Scorpio is so cool. There's all this stuff. And it's like, yeah, but it's I'd rather not.

Tristan Paylor 45:23

Like, why do I have to do it? Why do I

Kyle Pierce 45:26

always having to collapse into a heap of rubble and rise again, it's super powerful. It takes less energy.

Shay 45:37

Yeah. Another thing that is kind of fun is you can take, you can kind of create some questions for yourself to read cards on based on first house topics. So asking how do I see myself? How do others see me? Some other questions might be how is my sense of identity changed over time? How would I define my character? So you know whether you just want a journal on that or pull cards for it? I think that's another fun way to connect. Day just dig a little deeper on your own personal reflections on the houses. Yeah.

Kyle Pierce 46:14

I like that. So che you have mercury in the first house to write and it's it's joy. I'm immediately thinking of like a magician. Like making a tower collapse badass.

Shay 46:31

Oh my gosh. I feel like we've had a conversation about a magician making a tower collapse at some point. Isn't that one of the taro dough as the magician the magician I think it

Kyle Pierce 46:45

was in one of our club the one of the rooms I think it might have been Megan actually bringing it because she had a card it was the from the witch modern witch witch tarot deck and, and she was actually very Megan style because the she is it is the tower card. But she's using her one to like, make the tower come down. And she's looking like that's while doing it.

Unknown Speaker 47:10

I did that and I'm not ashamed.

Tristan Paylor 47:14

What I do I feel like we said we should put up that image be like, you know, if anyone wants to know who we've who we've brought on our show, this image encapsulates her. Oh my god.

Kyle Pierce 47:33

Yeah, anyway, the first house right, what else? It's, there's like almost you could not talk about the first house? And a lot of ways because it is. It's just like, oh, yeah, that's the first it's the base start. It's the it's almost like you can't interpret the first house without the rest of the house is giving it context. Right. It's just almost just like, a person in a blank empty room.

Tristan Paylor 47:56

I think. I don't think it's a totally blank, empty room. Yeah, I think another interpretive principle, that also comes from Hellenistic astrology. The, the Hellenistic name for the first house was the helm, which I think how you mentioned that metaphor of, of the steering wheel on a on a ship, and the sort of the spokes on it, or where you actually, you know, turn the wheel. And the the first has been sort of the first spoke, but it is it is from the first house and the planet that rules is that the events of your life are directed, and so it gives you direction. So there's sort of a tendency to move in the direction of what is represented by your first house. So if you look at the planet, ruling your first house and then you look at what house in sign that planet is in. So for example, I'm a cancer rising and my moon is in Scorpio in the fifth house. So you know, interpreting that in my own chart, I would say like, my life has a tendency to move in the direction of the topics of the fifth house, that tends to be a focal point. Or, you know, I exercise my my agency, I sort of steer my life in the direction of the fifth house and you know, Scorpio fifth house topics, which I won't get into, but

Kyle Pierce 49:21

I was actually just thinking about, you know, how it actually was really used? What was the nautical technique, I think, balance I don't know, they're really like looking at like where the helmsman is, you know, the ruler of the first house is just thinking about how you know, the ruler of your first house where it is in the chart to tell you maybe how your how you have your grip on the wheel. You know, where's your grip on the on the driving wheel on the steering wheel? Or do you have like that iron grip that's like, are you at 1012? What is it when you're on They tell you in Driver's Ed, well, you don't know the person because you don't drive. I'm sorry.

Tristan Paylor 50:06

Are you asking me? Should you drive you drive? Right?

Shay 50:09

I prefer not to.

Kyle Pierce 50:14

Well, yeah, I mean, if there's actually some symbolic rebel resonance there, at least with some of them, just thinking about like a fifth house, it's like you're kind of bottom. It's like your hands kind of rested on your knee. You got a grip on the wheel, but your kind of chillin to you're listening to a podcast. You know, you're not like podcast, of course. Yeah, you're steering. You're just not like, you're not overly you're not like, like, Oh, my God, is there somebody about to cut me off? Or, you know, not yelling at the guy next next to you? I don't know. Anyway, total tangent, but um, yeah, the first house is really the helm of the ship, I think is a great way to think about the the first house it really ties into the the agency element of it. But it's also like your your heading, you know, where, where are you steering the ship towards? What is the course that you're gonna tend to want to set in life?

Tristan Paylor 51:16

Yeah, it gives it gives the whole chart direction, it gives it a place to go, it's sort of like the North Star. And so that's why you know, whatever else, you're interpreting your chart, you always have to interpret it in that context, like whatever is going on, it's all being packed into the ship headed in the direction the Ascendant is taking it.

Kyle Pierce 51:35

Um, yeah, probably another big important first house topic, that it won't tell you everything about this. But sometimes I think it gets overlooked leaned on but appearance, the first house, being, you know, will tell you a lot about the general way that someone looks but also maybe how they present themselves, you know, how what comes through, kind of at first glance, or when first encountering someone,

Shay 52:04

like first impressions. Like having

Kyle Pierce 52:07

you know, if you have Saturn in your first house or opposing your ascendant, you might tend to be a little more lean, you know,

Tristan Paylor 52:17

are more reserved, more reserved? Yeah, it's right. Like, it's sometimes you see the correlations of physical appearance, but I try not to, I feel like those can get problematic really quickly. We

Kyle Pierce 52:29

can Oh, yeah. I mean, you can overdo it has.

Shay 52:34

Yeah, I was also thinking about how your appearance can change over time soon. But if the chart is something that represents you, throughout your whole life, you know, your parents isn't going to necessarily be the same throughout your life. So maybe just I don't know. Yeah, I think that would be part of the problem with doing leaning too much on appearance. Yeah, what's

Tristan Paylor 52:56

the point? Like,

Kyle Pierce 53:02

note that we're not sorry.

Tristan Paylor 53:11

I was gonna say like, you know, maybe if you're a Gemini rising, or you've got mercury in the first house or something, you know, that might indicate, like being more inclined to sort of change your appearance or your mannerisms, being more changeable. Whereas something like Saturn in the first house, like you might kind of pick a style and stick to it.

Kyle Pierce 53:33

Yeah, and if you have mercury in your first time, if you have mercury in your first house, you might be a little more fastidious about your appearance, not just hideous, but you might take a lot of care in your appearance, because mercury likes things clean and neat and organized. You know, it's going to depend on a lot of things and I think that's maybe why need the best way that I would like to phrase the first house and appearance is it's one of the significator is for the appearance you know, you're gonna get that from other planets other areas of the chart as well. And I think that's a good rule of thumb with astrology in general is that you know, if you see something happening in one area of the charter one thing that means this thing you know, look for it everywhere else to like, see if it shows up a lot and if it shows up a lot, then that's when you're gonna start seeing that more manifest in life but you know, don't get hung up on one thing and think that it means everything

Tristan Paylor 54:30

Yeah, it's like that rule of threes if theme repeats in a chart three or more times that's something very worth paying attention to.

Kyle Pierce 54:39

would do you take like a similar approach when you're interpreting a spread che

Shay 54:45

approaches and how can you

Kyle Pierce 54:47

like what imagine you know, if you're looking at the sea, you have a spread where you know, the first card is like the significator for the person or the situation in general mean You're gonna look at like the rest of the cards to see to give context and layers to that that situation, right?

Shay 55:06

Yeah, for sure they're all going to work together kind of any would look for patterns, I guess similarly to looking in, in the chart, you know, if you're seeing a certain element showing up a lot in a, in a reading, or if you're seeing a certain number that's showing up a lot, then that would be, you know, more significant Yeah, or might, you know, draw your attention to it. And also, sometimes the cards might be facing each other, or, you know, the figures are kind of look like they're communicating with each other, which can, can indicate some connections between them also. So yeah, I think tying all the parts of reading together, is similar to wanting to tie the different parts of the chart together and look for common themes. Yeah. I'm also thinking about the spread physicians that might be associated with the first house, you'd mentioned the significator. So sometimes we pull a card to represent the person who's asking the question. So that card, you know, would kind of be a first house card, maybe even your attitude to the situation, or you at this moment. So any kind of any kind of spread physicians associated with the person themselves, I think would be good first house correlations? Yeah. I think I think there's certain cards that are also related to the first house, I wrote down the fool. And what you were talking about earlier as being like a blank canvas, yeah, that you're creating your experiences from that really goes along with the fool, which is about new beginnings and kind of taking the leap into something new. That's the the person who is beginning the the fool's journey through the Major Arcana, the first 22 cards of the deck. And so as they're starting out, it's kind of like the the idea of the sun rising over the horizon, that we don't know what what's going to happen next. And all the experience of the fullest journeyer are written on them as they go through the various stages of life.

Kyle Pierce 57:14

Yeah, I love the fool is the first, it does seem to have a lot of resonance with the first house because at least my understanding of the fools it's, it is, it's very much like in the moment, it's blank, kind of, it's kind of brand new and fresh, it's not really thinking about the past or the future, it's just kind of going and waiting to interact with the world waiting to go on a journey. And it's kind of the essence of the first house is that starting point, but you know, then everything else happens and influences influences that point, which maybe is worth mentioning. When you're looking at charts, it's good to note, like, you know, the degree of the ascendant, even if you're using whole sign houses, the degree of the sun, it's still important, for lots of reasons, but can kind of be the, as it's representing where the the horizon is, basically, on the earth, it's, you know, that point between visibility and invisibility. So it's like a, you know, a powerful point within that house. But looking at, like planets that make an aspect to that point, are often very influential on the first house itself.

Tristan Paylor 58:34

That's a really good point. A definite like any sort of aspect, especially if it's applying within three degrees of the Ascendant is something that I pay close attention to, because that will modify the interpretation of the ascendant a little bit. Yeah. Um, do we have anything else we want to say about the first house before we get into what supports the first house?

Shay 59:02

I was just thinking about, you know, some some activities that might be ways to engage with your first house, just kind of any kind of self reflection or journaling, that also kind of takes mercury into account as well being, you know, a planet of communication. So if you're engaging in any kind of self reflection, or or journaling, or even I feel like tarot readings themselves kind of help you to. To engage with your first house. Yeah.

Kyle Pierce 59:40

Self care that's coming into my mind. That can mean a lot

Shay 59:42

of things. Oh, yeah, for sure.

Kyle Pierce 59:46

Okay, to be a little selfish in the first house when your

Unknown Speaker 59:50

first house is about you.

Tristan Paylor 59:52

Yeah, I like the sort of practical application. I feel like Kyle and I can get a little abstract sometimes so it's nice having Shay here yeah.

Kyle Pierce 1:00:03

All right, well, before we that I out pee real quick. And then we can continue. I don't want to like

Tristan Paylor 1:00:10

you're gonna support terrorists,

Kyle Pierce 1:00:12

I think supporting my first house,

Unknown Speaker 1:00:14

maybe engaging in self care. Have a theory.

Kyle Pierce 1:00:17

And I don't think I'm the only one that thinks about this. But, you know, the second house is the house. It's what supports the the first, it's what you know, where we get the meaning one of the many meanings the second house is like food which you put into your body, because the second house will eventually rise and become the first. So it's stuff that like, makes you up. It's stuff that that makes you in the 12th house is the stuff that falls away from first that falls away from you. What falls away after you eat. I'll give you one hint.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:53

Okay, bye.

Tristan Paylor 1:00:58

Yeah, we have located poop in the houses. So we're gonna make sure we talk about the tall Paris that we cover that tall circle back to this. Yeah, very important. Key key word for the 12 houses poop.

Shay 1:01:10

Oh, gosh.

Tristan Paylor 1:01:13

I'm sorry. No, yes.

Shay 1:01:16

Yes, the sun in the house of poop. Thank you.

Tristan Paylor 1:01:19

I have Venus in the house of poop, which is not sound great. All

Kyle Pierce 1:01:26

right, so the second house,

Tristan Paylor 1:01:27

second house, the house that supports the first house.

Kyle Pierce 1:01:33

Yes. And that's a good starting point, just what supports the first house?

Tristan Paylor 1:01:40

Well, we've got resources, like actual material resources. The traditional name for the second house was the gate of Hades,

Kyle Pierce 1:01:55

a lot about their attitude towards material life.

Tristan Paylor 1:02:01

A Wellfleet Welcome to hell. Well, there's also, I mean, on a more positive note, and understanding that, especially you know, if you live in a very agricultural society, which I guess we still do, but we're a little less connected to the actual agriculture part. You recognize that everything that is necessary for life, all of the food that you eat comes from out of the dark earth, from out of the ground. So it's sort of like the the treasures of the underworld, and one of the treasures that comes from the underworld is the food that we eat, which is represented by the second house.

Kyle Pierce 1:02:40

Yeah, and like, you know, first person is like you and your physical body, like, what do you stand on? What supports you existing is the earth that you're standing on? It the you're not just floating in space, you're standing on something on Earth? Yeah. That's the broad basics of the second house. But you already made the point. Well, but um, yeah, so and then like food growing from the earth, you know, the food that you put into your body definitely shows up with the second house, your taste and food in the way you like to dress. The what's in the second house, you know, the ruler of the second house aspects being made to the ruler of the second house, say something about, you know, the way that maybe you feed yourself and maybe the way that you were fed when you were younger, and maybe something that doesn't get that I've been looking at more with the second house is actual family, I think there's a component to the family with the second house.

Tristan Paylor 1:03:35

As being you know, what supports you when you think of like, the first house is kind of like a newborn baby. You know, another reason why the full is a great card for the first house. But you know, a newborn baby is helpless. And without caregivers to meet their needs, you know, make sure that they're the right temperature, and they get enough love and they get enough nutrition, and that they're sheltered from the elements and all that kind of stuff. They will not thrive. So you know, the second house being family also. And you find family, obviously, in the fourth house, which we'll get to when we get there. But yeah, there's definitely some familial connection to the second house in terms of like, maybe speaking to your early experiences of care. And, you know, do you did you grow up with a mindset of abundance and safety? Or did you grow up with a mindset of scarcity and need a second house can talk about your relationship to those concepts?

Kyle Pierce 1:04:32

Yeah, I think the second house points to a different component of family than maybe the fourth house. And it is yeah, like you were saying, like the maybe the more physical, tangible material support that you receive, do you have like, actually, there's a whole segment in just reading it dorotheus sight on dorotheus has this whole segment in the book in his book about whether you know, the native will be raised or not, and looks at all sorts of different factors, but the second house at least one of them, so like having physical support, you know, clothes? Is the baby fed? Is the baby clothes to have diapers? roof over your head? And what do you need to get all these things

Tristan Paylor 1:05:18

we all talk at once?

Shay 1:05:22

Well, I'm thinking as you're older, what supports you would be your livelihood and your maybe money, finances your material things differently? How you can you know, support your family with those things? And also support yourself this kind of how you would purchase the resources that you have?

Tristan Paylor 1:05:42

Yeah, how you manage them?

Kyle Pierce 1:05:44

The second house is a very Pentacles the kind of house

Unknown Speaker 1:05:46

yeah, for cards associated, I just wrote suit of Pentacles. Yeah.

Kyle Pierce 1:05:54

When I think it Yeah. One of the ways of organizing the houses that is not don't think it's exclusive to like the modern 12 letter alphabet, but is actually kind of organizing them into Triple Cities, in a sense and believe the second 10th and sixth are all Earth, like they're kind of organized with the earth triplicity. While like the, the fourth and the eighth, and the 12th are a little more watery, a little more emotional,

Tristan Paylor 1:06:31

we you get the triplicity is with the angles were the first the 12th. And the second would actually be airy. And then the houses around the world are earthy, the houses around the seventh are watery, and the houses around the 10th are fiery, because fires, you know, the most elevated and visible thing. Air, you know, sort of representing the eastern horizon, Earth being the heaviest thing that you know, is at the lowest point being at the bottom of the chart, and then water sort of flowing, like it's at the setting place where it's like flowing downwards. Yeah, there's like, you're kind of you start with the breath of life at the ascendant, you get, you know, fire at the 10th house where life is sort of at its most vigorous, and then it starts to set and it's like water that's flowing to the lowest place, and then the action, like lowest place and foundation of everything is Earth. That's another way of associating the, the elements or the triplicity. Is Is there known traditionally, the houses,

Shay 1:07:32

that's really good to know.

Kyle Pierce 1:07:35

Yeah, but um, like the livelihood shake, because that is a big component of the second house mean, everything that you're talking about, especially in modern society, it all points to money. And the second house will tell you a lot about your relationship with money. Yeah, how you spend it, how you bring it in, it's not the only place I look for money or for where you make it. But it's that's a huge component,

Tristan Paylor 1:08:03

have been finding over and over again, that the second house lines up more with what somebody actually does for a career than the 10th house, which is, usually we think when we want to look at career in a chart, we jump right to the 10th. But I just keep finding over and over like the second house and its ruling planet really literally describes what somebody does for a living. Yeah. Like, whose chart was I looking at? The other day, it was the chart of a famous writer and the ruler of a second house is mercury in the third. And that's like, well, of course, the thing that made you money was writing books like source of your livelihood. That's what put food on the table. So don't sleep on the second house when it comes to career.

Shay 1:08:44

Yeah, take that into account to

Kyle Pierce 1:08:47

definitely always look at the second house for for career, among other things, I think it's maybe a good interpretive principle to, I like to think of the houses and like their base topics, their their topic is like the starting point, to maybe looking at a topic. You know, if you're looking at money, start with the second house, and then you know, look at the moon is the waxing or waning in light, you know, look at the benefics if they're, you know, how are they configured? Were they doing with other planets? What are the other supportive houses, the succeeding houses doing? You know, what's the overall picture for money, but you can start with the second house?

Tristan Paylor 1:09:23

Yeah, that's a good starting place.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:26

And there's there's not a planet that has its joy the second house, right?

Tristan Paylor 1:09:30

No, no one always is in the underworld. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:35

Other than Hades, Hades?

Kyle Pierce 1:09:38

Well, I think yeah. The second and eighth houses like aren't really there to kind of neglected in that scheme. And then basically all the angular houses the first except for the first house, the fourth, the seventh and the 10th. Don't have a planet that rejoices there.

Tristan Paylor 1:09:56

The planets are lazy. They don't want to For houses because there's too much to do there.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:04

Since there's not a planet card association for the second house, just looking at my own personal ruler of the second house, so my second house is in Sagittarius, which is ruled by Jupiter. So that's a planet of expansion and sometimes luck. The card associated with Jupiter is the Wheel of Fortune, which can also be a card of luck. But it's also just those cycles of expansion and contraction cycles of going into lucky and unlucky times. And relating that to some of the second house topics. So for me, it's just been making money in different ways, kind of throughout the years, from working at restaurants, and then playing playing flute at different churches, when faced with life, where I was like a flute player for hire for your Christmas program, or for Easter and all that and then, you know, going on and becoming a teacher and then going into Tarot reading and pretty much, you know, I've I've managed to find some amount of success in whatever I did. But I didn't stick with any one thing for very long. So that feels very Wheel of Fortune 82 is kind of turning on to the next thing, kind of how my relationship with money was kind of consistent, but it changed, like the way that I made money has changed a lot over the years.

Tristan Paylor 1:11:36

I like that What do

Unknown Speaker 1:11:36

you guys have? What do you have in your house ruling your second house,

Tristan Paylor 1:11:41

we both have the sun but in depth signs of houses. So I have five very solar sun. I have the sun in Aries in the 10th house ruling my second house, which actually fits what I'm doing right now. Because one of the significations of the sun that has been a little bit lost in modern times is divination. And, you know, the sun was associated with prophecy in ancient times. It's the thing that shines light on something and I think you sometimes see Apollo being associated with the sun in Greek mythology, and Apollo was also like the God of prophecy who, you know, gave the oracle at Delphi. You know, her the, the prophecies that she she shared with parents who came to the temple who wanted advice on things in their lives, or that sort of thing. So I think like that shows up pretty literally for both of us, Kyle, where the sun rules, divination and like communicating with the gods in some way. I used to work in church ministry. You know, the sun represents God and I worked for God got my money from, you know, teaching Sunday school and doing youth ministry and that kind of stuff. So I was you know, teaching people about religious stories and you know, helping people find like meaning and personal elimination and that kind of thing. So I think that fits pretty well with my second house.

Kyle Pierce 1:13:19

Yeah. That fits really well with yours. I feel like my maybe second house significations showed up have showed up in different ways. Yeah, I guess throughout my life so far. I know, I have the sun in Taurus and the 11th house and Sons conjunct Jupiter. And I do note that while I have had a certain degree of luck, maybe with money where things never really quite bottom out completely, like there's always some support or resource for me to fall back on Jupiter, right. And also having a tendency to be a little tend to assume that things are just going to work out. I don't know I don't like to pay too much attention to my finances historically. It's also mean it's been you know, squared by Mars. So it's a bit of a mixed bag and that department but it there's a loose trine with Saturn like Saturn slowly but surely is teaching me to to be a little more restrained in my my spending habits. But I'm also you know, tend to be Taurus in end that I like nice things. I like soft clothes, right? I like comfortable things. I like tasty. I like to spend money on snacks and things. But I also am a little more you know, I'm not quite as luxurious. Maybe it's your your typical Taurus, because Mars is like we're not getting too fancy with the ship where

Tristan Paylor 1:14:55

Mars is. Yeah, Mars is a brace of Mars is like that. My splinters stuck in your your company sock?

Kyle Pierce 1:15:03

Oh yeah, I do. I mean, I lose my things often to Mars seems to like to make those missing.

Tristan Paylor 1:15:16

But yeah, yeah, I've got I got both both malefics on top of my second house ruler as well. And money has not been like an easy thing for me I definitely am, like, I'm recognizing my part in that because sometimes like I trapped myself in a scarcity mindset, and that prevents me from taking steps that would make things better. So I feel like that's sort of something my chart is telling me to pay attention to is like, look at the ways that you are holding yourself back, you know, because you don't believe in yourself or you don't believe things are going to work. So you don't try that kind of thing. Sometimes no animal ethics or giving your second house ruler a hard time that can be a way of working with that is sort of recognizing like, what are the ways that I am getting in my own way when it comes to like having enough to survive and and be comfortable, not just survive, but actually be comfortable and have some security?

Kyle Pierce 1:16:09

Yeah. Yeah, Saturn is like, their scarcity mindset? Or is there you know, a hard time seeing possibility or opportunity or seizing opportunity?

Unknown Speaker 1:16:17

And some some thoughts to or questions that you could use your cards to ask when related to the second house could be I think one of these you said what is my relationship with money? Also, like how important are material possessions to me? Or how easy or challenging is it for me to hold on to money. So those are just some things you can think about related to the second house. And then I was also thinking of positions in a Tarot Spread. So that could be cards to represent hopes, fears or anxieties, because I think the sessions bring all that up. Yeah, as maybe even just your your environment or your surroundings or your influences, because I think that a lot of that is wrapped up in, you know what you value in your material possessions as well.

Tristan Paylor 1:17:09

Yeah, like? So great. Yeah. And

Unknown Speaker 1:17:12

apart from just the suit of Pentacles. I was also thinking that temperance would be a good card associated with this just because, you know, as far as you know, how, how you relate to money, maybe trying to find that middle path? Yeah, there you are, you know, to hold on to money too much, or you spend it too easily. And then justice because of consequences. So that might be a card that might come up related to the second house. Maybe you're spending too much.

Kyle Pierce 1:17:42

Yeah, yeah. You see the maybe the material consequences of your activities in the second house? Yeah. Pretty Pretty tangibly.

Tristan Paylor 1:17:51

I like justice, too, because I think, you know, we, when we talk about the second house, you know, we also have to talk about this sort of, like, context for money in our society, like, there's huge income inequality. And, you know, there's like, to some extent, you have some agency over what happens with money in your life, but to some extent, you don't, right, like it's determined by your socioeconomic status, and the kinds of opportunities you're given or denied, which you don't really have any control over. So I kind of like the the Justice card as being like, another thing you can think about with the second house is, you know, what is your sort of understanding of how money works in a society and how it should be, like, fairly distributed and managed within a society? Yeah, the Justice card is a good like, income equality kind of card.

Kyle Pierce 1:18:46

I've totally seen that show up in in charts of like, people who write about money money writers use that with eighth and second house a lot. But the second house just carries that topic of like, the distribution of resources. The second and eighth really, but it's, yeah, your your relationship with money, even society's relationship with money, that the just that topic. If you were to think of like a moneyless society, you know, what would the second house represent? Stuff that money buys, you know?

Unknown Speaker 1:19:16

Yeah, just kind of add in some second house activities. So I was thinking, budgeting, maybe like analyzing your spending, but also possibly organizing your possessions. Organizing your office, that would be me. You know, just kind of like, putting things in order related to you know, if you've got a lot of stuff, maybe you need to go through, get rid of some stuff. donate some stuff. Make some room for your stuff.

Kyle Pierce 1:19:46

Sometimes I wish that mercury is a little more under the beans of my son because at least then it would help put my shit in order.

Shay 1:19:57

Get your house in order. Yeah.

Kyle Pierce 1:20:00

I do want to say one more thing about the second house

Tristan Paylor 1:20:05

cut off, no more, we have already voted.

Kyle Pierce 1:20:11

The second house along with the sixth, the eighth and the 12th house, is one of the houses that does not make a traditional Ptolemaic aspect with the first house, which is part of what gives the the 12th and the eighth and the sixth, some more difficult subjects, more difficult topics, seen as more difficult houses. But the second is seen as generally more of a supportive house. There's almost like a neutrality to the second house, I find it's like not strictly positive or negative house. It's I mean, it's positive in the sense of stuff that supports you. But I mean, you can get maybe too wrapped up in that maybe that's why they call it the gate of Hades that's getting to absorbing material life neglecting the spiritual life. Yeah. But it's, I guess, the least negative of those, those four houses not making a aspect of the first house, least traditionally negative.

Tristan Paylor 1:21:15

And it makes, it doesn't aspect the first house, but it makes the 10th makes the superior trying to the second. So the 10th is kind of like bringing some of the second house topics out into sort of like visibility and, you know, giving them some potential to be positive or, you know, giving you an opportunity to have some kind of agency over them. And because of the the way that the 10th and the second are related. All right. Is it time for the 12th? House?

Kyle Pierce 1:21:47

Let's do it. I love to help us. Yeah. Really, the main think source of meaning for the 12th house is the fact that it is the sign or however you calculate that house, it's the one that is falling away from the horizon that it is now that it's it's kind of falling away from the place of power, and a sense. So, you know, really, traditionally, you get the 12 houses showing up as things that work against you or ways in which it's, you know, the house of self undoing right? Ways that you work against her and do yourself. But don't jump around too much. But when you think about ducks, we brought like Leo earlier and even like the magician to some degree, there's an element of pride and agency with the first house or, you know, this is me, and then in the 12th house. When you know you lose your pride, what are you you're humbled, you're brought down, but there can be one of the positive sides of the 12th house is that that sense of humility? It's the house where Saturn rejoices. Saturn tends to, to humble things and make them not so ostentatious. Right. And so I it's one of my favorite qualities of the 12th house. Is that it you know, 12th house is not

Shay 1:23:12

it's not a fun place.

Kyle Pierce 1:23:13

It's not a peacock. It's not necessarily a fun place. But it's it's not a Yeah, it's not a peacock fighting. It's flaunting its feathers. It's it's maybe been shoved out. It's like being shoved off to the side, sort of, you know, like, Oh, you were in power. But now we're on to the next one. It's like being Conan O'Brien and having your show cancelled and taken over by what's his name?

Who took over Conan O'Brien show? I was like,

Tristan Paylor 1:23:49

Yeah, I can't help you with

Kyle Pierce 1:23:51

this one for I know him his face, I can see his face. Whatever part of my brain that categorizes in the names of things lives in the 12th house. Away from me. Maybe Venus?

Tristan Paylor 1:24:11

It's your blind spot. Definitely. Yeah, I think it really shows you the the relationship of houses in Angular triads really beautifully that the first house is the house itself, the second half supports itself. And then the 12th house being all about transition and closure and dissolving is the place of self undoing. And the place of humbling and it's kind of neat that the world is the last card in the Major Arcana, right. Sure. Did you want to talk about that? Yeah.

Shay 1:24:46

Yeah, it is. And it's love the World Cups. Yeah, it's, it's something that it was interesting to see because Saturn is the planet that has its joy in the 12th house and Saturn and is associated with the world, which when I think about the world card, it seems like such a happy positive card, you know, everything's coming to fruition. And it was hard at first for me to associate that with Saturn, which is, you know, a restriction of freedoms of you know, it's a greater malefic. But the world can also be the AC end of the line, it's, you know, you've, you've achieved this, these lessons in this cycle. And now the cycles come to an end, and it's time to start a new one. So I think, you know, just even thinking of like your Saturn Return being a cycle. Not always a fun one. So I think all of those things kind of do make the world card. And that connection to Saturn make a lot of sense for the 12th house.

Tristan Paylor 1:25:49

Yeah, it's like the end of the Fool's Journey.

Kyle Pierce 1:25:52

But it is there's an end and beginning to it to Yeah, it's like

Shay 1:25:55

the accumulation of all the lessons that you've learned along the way. And then you're, you're headed to the next the next cycle.

Tristan Paylor 1:26:02

And it can be like, I sometimes think of the 12th house is being kind of like a waiting room. The cadent houses is like purgatory. Totally. One of the the qualities of, or I guess, the circumstances of planets and cadent houses is they don't have as much freedom to act and be visible in the world, especially the sixth than 12, the third and ninth or, you know, generally considered a little more, there are more opportunities in the 39. But planets in the 12 it the 12th house reminds me a lot of snowshoeing in the winter. You know, like the first house is like riding a jetski like you can get where you're going and get there quickly. And you know, your your steering wheel is responsive to where you want to go in the 12th house, like there's an engine failure, or it's the middle of winter, and there's snow everywhere. And so you know, you have to be really resourceful. And, and it kind of, yeah, are you returning the night before? Maybe. I mean, I guess that's the self undoing part, right. And also making irresponsible decisions that lead to, like, actually just putting things in your life on hold. It'd be one of the dark sides of the 12th house. But yeah, it's just it's sort of like when you're in the 12th house, you're sort of waiting for the next thing to start. And you know that the way you deal with those circumstances, is actually really important. Because, you know, it's easy when you're sort of in between states to just get really sort of bored, and restless and feel constrained and trapped. And that's how the 12th house can feel. But there are certain things about you that you can't lose sort of even in, in those circumstances that you're still able to hold on to, when are in those places of sort of waiting in transition and like, I can't act yet. You know, that those circumstances are where you kind of have to access, you know, your reserves of of inner peace, like can you experience contentment? Can you be patient? Those kinds of things are, like positive experiences that can come from being in 12th places is having to learn patience and learn inner peace

Kyle Pierce 1:28:28

and let go of the outcome. Yeah, exactly.

It's like, that's a big 12th House lesson. Yeah, actually, I'm really like, it's picking them up the World card. And I really liked that because while you know the world in tarot, it signifies that yeah, that combination, that sort of end and beginning quality, the 12th house actually is associated with birth in the sense that it's, it's the birthing process. It's like the time right before birth, you know, the sign that was rising When your mother was in labor, and really, at the most dangerous point of that whole process, you know, pushing you through the birth canal, you know, a lot of pressure, it's painful, it's dark. It's you don't really have any agency, either. It's, you know, nature is taking over. It's painful for both the mother and the baby. It's very dangerous. Even I believe, victorious. Yeah, victorious. Egyptian was the he started his delineations on the houses with the 12. Because even tying in that joy of Saturn component because Saturn rules Aquarius and Aquarius is the water barrel mayor and the spilling of the water of the womb, you know, the natal waters the final waters, I guess. Like yeah, you know, that makes sense. It's, I mean, it's a very it's a very dangerous time of transition. Historically, babies and mothers died. Why? Often during childbirth,

Unknown Speaker 1:30:02

yeah. I'm also thinking about the significations of that 12th house being like seclusion isolation. So, before you're born, you're secluded in this place. And then, you know, you're released into the world where you have other interactions with other people, but the whole time that you're just within the womb, you're kind of in a type of captivity. Kind of isolation.

Tristan Paylor 1:30:25

Yeah, it's dark.

Kyle Pierce 1:30:27

It's a little, I guess, in theory, cozier in there, but who knows? I but there's a death symbolism with the 12th house. And it's the you know, that kind of ending point. And what do you know, what does it really do? Have to do alone? Just die alone, right? Not in such a horrible, miserable sense. People with you, but it's still you the one that's passing

Tristan Paylor 1:30:52

into you go alone? Yeah. Are you the only one who's directly experiencing your dad yells, can you speak directly experience it with you?

Kyle Pierce 1:31:01

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's where you can get maybe some of the modern approaches to the 12th house. And in your unconscious mind, in a sense, it's very much like the internal subjective part, the stuff that you don't really have control over, or that you have to work really hard to, to get access to, you know, like your, your kind of unconscious programming, in a sense, your your deep, you know, psychological wounds.

Tristan Paylor 1:31:29

I think there is a traditional basis for associating the 12th house with sleep and dreams, because of its association with the time before birth, where, you know, like, the sleep is sort of like death, and then you wake up after being asleep. And it's like being born over and over again. So there's that sort of, like, the cycle of wakefulness. And sleep is sort of like the cycle of, you know, coming through the dark tunnel back into the light of the world over and over again. And you're also like, you're paralyzed when you're sleeping, right, which is, you know, the 12th house is, is confining, and, you know, you don't have a lot of agency in there, your body is literally like shutting and it's that waiting room thing. Or whenever asleep, you're like, you're sort of you're between worlds, you aren't really able, you know, unless you're really adept at lucid dreaming, like you can't really make a lot of use of that time. You're just out. You know, you're not you're not really there. Other than in your dreams.

Kyle Pierce 1:32:32

Yeah, one of my favorite 12th House delineations actually comes from Vedic Astrologer is Victor Kara's translation of called Deepika. And it's the 12th house is like the translated into English, it's like the results of lying down, which I think tells you so much about the tall house. Like, on the one hand, it's like get rest, you know, sleeping. But also, like just not doing anything, you know, the results of that are like, you don't stand up and handle a problem, the opportunity, you'll miss the opportunity, or you shoot yourself in the foot, self sabotage, like if you don't, if you avoid problems, right.

Tristan Paylor 1:33:10

But you also can't be in the angular houses all the time. That's really kind of see that difference between Angular and cadent, where, you know, the 12th House asleep and lying down and it's pausing, you're, you're not actively pursuing your will. But you can't be actively pursuing your will all the time, or you will burn yourself right out. Yeah, that's really there's a time for everything in astrology, like there's a time and a place for each for the topics of each of the houses.

Kyle Pierce 1:33:41

You need to do your 12 house every day really sounds like I need to do my 12th house personally, and even when I'm awake, be alone, isolate any places alone, away from a little bit. Quiet silence, where am I doing anything, we're just laying on the couch chilling and like clearing my mind out.

Tristan Paylor 1:33:59

Now there's no purpose behind your activity,

Kyle Pierce 1:34:03

per se, in a sense, it's a little bit like the opposite of the second house. It's not actually opposite, but it's sort of a reverse, in the sense that if you think of the second house being very material and supportive, the 12th house is more abstract and D materializing in a sense where it's the best maybe that you get out of the 12th house is like learning to like have peace and serenity with things that are outside your control. They can have the World card again and she like the figure in the world card just has this like look of like serene, serene Ness, serenity. Just like in the air like flowing. I don't know accepting is that the one that has all the fixed signs, kind of bordering it in the corners? Taurus and Scorpio and Leo and Aquarius,

Unknown Speaker 1:34:52

and has the Reese kind of which seems almost like better yeah, ring.

Tristan Paylor 1:34:57

I never thought of that.

Kyle Pierce 1:34:58

Oh, I like that. I like that a lot. There's like a joyful, almost acceptance of fate, if you will, of the things that are outside your control. You can get a lot of great spiritual development there.

Unknown Speaker 1:35:11

Yeah, it feels more feels more accepting than the Wheel of Fortune, which is just sort of like you're stuck learning and Bing Bing turned along the wheel, whereas, yeah, whereas the world feels like you've allowed things to go as they will. And now you're enjoying the, the culmination, or accepting the culmination depending

Tristan Paylor 1:35:34

on how it goes. Yeah, I like that a lot.

Unknown Speaker 1:35:37

And I'm also thinking about other cards that could be associated with the 12th house and that idea of taking some time out, you know, maybe the hermit because of the, the, you know, the taking seclusion from others and kind of following your own path to a quiet place. And the the four swords, taking time out for rest. Kind of, I mean, the the Rider Waite Smith, the four of swords almost looks like you've almost looks like the person has died, because they're completely like they're laid on what looks like a coffin.

Tristan Paylor 1:36:14

I like the four of swords for the 12th house. I feel like that that visually, and I've never really connected it before. But visually, that's like exactly how I picture the 12th house. Is that just point of stopping

Kyle Pierce 1:36:26

it? Yeah, and the fourth, because there is like a somberness to the four of swords, too. But it's sort of like that recuperation recovery after. If something you know, like the three of

Shay 1:36:37

swords, the three of swords comes right, but

Kyle Pierce 1:36:41

you're like recovering from the pain, you're accepting the loss, you're accepting that the thing that happened that you can't change the outcome of any more. That's 12.

Tristan Paylor 1:36:53

This is giving me a lot of insight into my Venus in the 12th house. Like what what you were saying, Kyle about the figure on the World card, having that sort of posture and expression of serenity, regardless of what's going on around them. Yeah, I was an art student briefly. I was like a huge art nerd in high school. And I used to do a lot of drawing and painting. And sort of a recurring theme in my drawings was people in environments that were very painful, but who looked incredibly serene and at peace. And so now I'm putting that together. And I'm like, Oh, well, there's how my Venus in the 12th house shows up where Venus is artistic expression. And I make, you know, pictures of people who are like, in painful circumstances. But you know, just have like, the look on their face of a saint, like one of my favorite art pieces, is the ecstasy of Saint Teresa, which is giant sculpture based on a religious vision that St. Teresa of Avila had. And a lot of like, monastic folks, I think really fit into the 12th house where it's very Saturday, like it's very disciplined and structured, it's also very isolated. And it's, it's a very extreme way to live. So like, you know, even the fact that it was a saint who lived a very austere, self controlled life, and she had this vision of encountering an angel, and the angel thrust a spear into her heart repeatedly. And it was like the most painful but also most ecstatic and blissful experience, all at the same time. And it was just like, I was obsessed with this for some reason. And I actually had like, an image of the sculpture like over my bed, like that was a piece of art I displayed in my house. And yeah, that seems like a very Venus in the, in the 12th house image to me,

Unknown Speaker 1:38:59

well, and I have I have Venus as a ruler of my 12th house because my 12th house is Libra. So you know, Venus being associated with with beauty and harmony, and the tarot card that goes with Venus is the Empress which is can be a card of creation and motherhood and nurturing. So as I was thinking through that, because I don't personally have any children, but I'm around children through my work. So thinking about the 12th house being can be a place of seclusion. So bringing beauty Venus into a secluded place, a classroom for children, the influence. So in other words, creating nurturing spaces in the online environments, which you know, is supporting children who are in isolation at home while they're learning online. So, the more I kind of dived into dove into that the more I could see those connections between the Empress and The 12th house for myself personally,

Kyle Pierce 1:40:03

I'm trying to remember now, which classic delineation of this. This was of, I'm pretty sure it's Venus in the 12th. House. She was the he shall be father to other men's children. Something that's interesting. Yeah. In which I mean, I think you for that from the author's perspective, like, ah, you know, he's burdened with, you know, the children that were cast off by somebody else. Yeah. But what you were saying, che made me think of that. And since it's like, you're playing caretaker to other people's children, and there's less, you don't really get like the pride of it quite, or at least not like the big public pride of it, that you might your parents, if that's your thing, where, you know, you look at the accomplishments of your children as reflecting on yourself in some way. What you mean, I think all parents probably can't help it to some degree. But that idea of like, no, no, there's like a quiet, sort of, you're watching and you're proud, but like, it's not about you, you're proud of them. I think that there's something about that with the 12th house, it's we're being actually has some, like nice overlap, brings out some positivity in the 12. House. More specifically, but just the 12 house in general is that there is a there's, you know, a sacrifice component, there's a giving oneself over to something else, something greater, like positive.

Tristan Paylor 1:41:34

The self, the self undoing can also be, you know, service, which I think that we'll talk about this with the sixth house too, because that access of the sixth and the 12th both have a lot to do with service. When you're you're doing the 12th house, you're not sort of working or acting on your own behalf, necessarily, when you're doing the first house, you're acting on your own behalf. When you're doing the 12th house, you are acting on behalf of others and often doing work that is in the background that doesn't get a lot of publicity. You know, the person who cleans up the garbage after a function like a big public event, you know that that person doesn't get a lot of publicity? For what they do, it's sort of like a humble profession. So you know, that can be another thing to think about when you're interpreting your own 12th house is like, what are the ways that I am of service to other people? And how comfortable Am I with, you know, being in the background or, you know, not sort of being applauded or rewarded for the work that I'm doing?

Unknown Speaker 1:42:44

Yeah. Yeah, I think those are great questions. I'm also thinking about maybe considering maybe what your blind spots might be as a question to ask yourself about the 12th house, you know, what am I not seeing? And maybe, how, in what ways do I need to spend more time alone? Or how is my response to being alone to isolation? Is it something that's comfortable for me is something I prefer? Something that makes me uncomfortable? thoughts around how you respond to being alone?

Tristan Paylor 1:43:21

That's, that's sometimes a nice thing about the tool. Ferriss is alone time. And if you really resonate with the 12 hours, I feel like a lot of 12 OC people are like, I really like my alone time. And, you know, people who aren't super tall to see you just like don't, you know, get what it's like to be able to appreciate your own company with constantly needing distractions and activities and to keep you busy.

Kyle Pierce 1:43:51

People looking at you,

Tristan Paylor 1:43:53

people, yeah, phenology if you don't, no one's looking at you in the 12th house. Yeah. So that's probably kind of a relief. You have to look at, yeah, you do have to look into your own soul, potentially. Yeah.

Kyle Pierce 1:44:05

That can be the best and worst part of the 12th house. Maybe we should probably be fair, and talk about like, you know, at least give do justice to the more negative significations of the 12th house because they're there and it's you know, considered traditionally at least one of the the most negative houses which it's not always pure negativity and crap but it's it's that's part of it and I think that depending on what's going on with wealth house, you know, it can kind of point to i There's a better way to say this and for some reason I'm thinking about Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap. Where, you know, depends on what you have there and like, the 12 house can be done is set up in ways where is people taking advantage of others

Tristan Paylor 1:45:00

What's your hidden enemies too? Right? That's yeah, the traditional significations is that the enemies that you don't see, are in the 12th. House. Yeah. So watch out. Let's get in there.

Kyle Pierce 1:45:13

On the side, sometimes I wonder if benefics in the 12th house sometimes seem to show up as like, I don't know, like you're not doing anything or like purposefully abstaining from from something. And then other people kind of getting in the fray and messing it up. And then the profits of it falling in your lap.

Shay 1:45:31

Like having to take the fall for we're

Kyle Pierce 1:45:33

letting other people because we think about like the results of lying down. If you have like a nice planet, they're got, you know, sometimes that can show up. It's like, not having to do anything and things just sort of falling into your lap.

Unknown Speaker 1:45:44

Gotcha. So sitting back, and then things working out, even though you didn't put in the work yourself. Yeah,

Kyle Pierce 1:45:50

I mean, I've seen that as being 12. I've seen that in my own life and my own chart, my own 12 House placements, and with the 12, house placements, people I know, it's like, I don't need to do that. I don't know, I'm like, I don't really want to, somebody else will come in and take care of it. even think about it as the sixth house from the seventh. And we haven't gotten to the sixth house yet. But the sixth house being tons of work, you know, just having like, a lot of crap to do a lot of stuff. The joy of Mars, you know, it's maybe the sixth house of your partner, and stuff, or other people stuff that other people work their asses off for. You don't have to. But that can be negative to slacking off.

Unknown Speaker 1:46:31

Yeah. And thinking about negative cards associated with it. The devil maybe with its association to addiction or to maybe causing your own or other people suffering.

Kyle Pierce 1:46:44

Totally, that addictions can really show up in the 12th house,

Tristan Paylor 1:46:47

on the bondage and the devil card too. Because the 12th house is about restricting circumstances and bondage and a lack of freedom

Kyle Pierce 1:46:56

situation is that you're stuck in toxic situations.

Tristan Paylor 1:46:59

Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:47:00

yeah. Or Eight of Swords is yeah, the imprisonment kind of card where she's surrounded by swords. And she's tied up. Yeah,

Tristan Paylor 1:47:08

she's got like, a cloth around the eyes, too, right?

Unknown Speaker 1:47:14

Yeah, she can't see. And her Her hands are bound. And she's not completely surrounded by swords. They're just on one side so she can get out. But yeah, see that she can get out? Oh, that's very true. So that kind of feels like not being able to see Yeah,

Kyle Pierce 1:47:26

that is very, um, because it's kind of swords. It's airy. It's an airy part of the sky. It's also an unknowing place for the sun to be in the morning. Like, oh, my god, your visor to block it entirely? Or you constantly have to shift your visor around.

Tristan Paylor 1:47:43

Yeah, that's sometimes be. Yeah, the 12th house can sometimes be, you know, being blinded by excess light. I think that was actually one of one old way of looking at the 12th house, because it is just like above the horizon. You know, it's it's where the sun is when it's just risen. So why, why should it be such a dark place or a bad place? And it's like, well, if anything, is in the path of the sun rising, it's completely obscured.

Kyle Pierce 1:48:08

Yeah. Yeah, one Yeah, as we talked about, with the planets episode, I believe we were talking about maybe the sun, and Saturn and those sorts of weird overlap, in the sense that the sun can block things with the light. Right. And I think the 12 houses already experienced that the most, a lot of celebrities seem to have sun in the 12th

Tristan Paylor 1:48:30

house. But there's like a bit of self undoing. I guess, when you become too wrapped up in it all you become like a public figure. And so you know, your life. And everything you do is for an audience. Yeah. It's no longer for yourself, and you can sort of lose sight of who you really are when you really want because you're living from the expectations of other people.

Kyle Pierce 1:48:52

I love that. This is like, why, why I keep Tristan around. Tristan, is that sense? He'll put things so perfectly and like there's no way I could have put it out that well. Exactly. Yeah. In the celebrities. That'll happen all the time. Thinking like child actors, like they. Oh, yeah. Their lives. Their early development is so wrapped up in them as celebrities that once they become adults, they're like, who am I? I don't even know. Yeah. Okay. Crisis and then when you're not the flavor of the month anymore. You know, who am I?

Tristan Paylor 1:49:28

You just discarded? She was also you know, discarding is definitely a 12th house theme. And some of the some of the mundane I see Shay laughing because you're probably thinking about Kyle talking about the 12th house is poop and me talking about bathroom earlier. Things get eliminated.

Kyle Pierce 1:49:48

So first place I look when I want to know what somebody's relationship with poop. How are your bowel movements? Look? It's Look at your tweet well,

Tristan Paylor 1:50:00

and also it fits with the theme of service a little bit too. Like who's willing to unplug the toilet when it clogs? That's it's well past John, you know? Yeah, some somebody is in the 12th house when they're Unclogging the toilet

Kyle Pierce 1:50:14

for sure. Yeah, it's Saturn, you know, dirty. I believe that. Was it Venus, one of the other ones, the balance, delineation for Venus in the 12th houses, is that he should live with slaves enjoy a natural and pure passions. I guess, slaves, I guess, show up?

Tristan Paylor 1:50:35

Yeah, I mean, that was one of the early significations for the 12th house was slaves, which is like, pretty upsetting. You know, that's not definitely not a pleasant thing to read. Yeah. But we nonetheless, you know, I think one of the important qualities of the 12th House is looking at the things we don't want to look at, because all this stuff we don't like is in there, the stuff we'd rather hide. And I think that, you know, humanity's relationship to slavery is something you were not comfortable talking about. We don't like to think about it, but it's, you know, been a part of human civilization for 1000s of years. And, you know, we like to think we've evolved past that now. But slavery still exists in the world, it hasn't totally gone away. So that, you know, that is a topic that the 12 has kind of calls us to task to confront our relationship with that and our long history of subjugating and subordinating each other.

Kyle Pierce 1:51:33

Absolutely. Why? Maybe you just want to add, we want to go on a big deep dive on 12,000 slavery, but um, the movie 20 years of slave, one of the things I think it did a really good job of illustrating was the way that slavery ends up damaging the slaveholder to, like, everybody loses, like, it ends up becoming this toxic cycle for everyone. And not saying like poor slave holders, by any stretch of the imagination.

Tristan Paylor 1:52:01

Yeah, I'm not gonna I don't feel too bad for that. That's not what I'm saying.

Kyle Pierce 1:52:05

I'm not saying feel bad for belief holders, but it wasn't good for them, either. Because it brought them into a toxic cycle. And if they had like, even a sliver of humanity, they felt shitty about things they had to do. They did somewhere in their hearts, and then they have to keep doing it to justify it, and really turned them into just really sick twisted people. And that is, you know, kind of the worst of the 12 house.

Tristan Paylor 1:52:31

Yeah, I'm just realizing that we are at 723. Now, and I really, I'm so sorry,

Unknown Speaker 1:52:39

there were just two more things that I wanted to add for the 12th house. So spread positions that might be associated with the 12th house and reading. So maybe the challenges for the card for what's crossing you, your past or your fears. So things that are Yeah, fears that you might have about possible suffering or possible dangers, or maybe the past that you aren't willing to look at or don't want to address. And then just some activities with the 12th house might be spending time alone, or you know, time in meditation, or going on a retreat. I'm just thinking of like meditation retreats, or yoga retreats being time where you're purposely putting yourself in seclusion. Yeah. And any other type of sensory deprivation might also fall under the 12th house as the next few weeks.

Tristan Paylor 1:53:41

Hmm. I like that.

Kyle Pierce 1:53:45

One of the things that maybe, um, I like to look at what the 12th house is, because there is a relationship traditionally with foreign lands in foreign countries. Is that sense of being like lost and of being in a totally alien environment?

Tristan Paylor 1:54:01

Yeah, yeah, that's an important one, too. You know, the the ninth house is like positive travel and the 12th house is like, I want to doesn't travel where your fight Yeah, you're far from home and you don't, you don't speak the language and you know, you're treated unfairly because you're a story or stranger and an outsider and that kind of experience.

Unknown Speaker 1:54:21

Well, that can be an isolating feeling as well, like not being able to communicate with the people around you or feeling part of the group,

Kyle Pierce 1:54:27

not speaking the language. Yeah. Well, with that, do we want to wrap it up with that first triad, and continue on with the other three on our next episode?

Tristan Paylor 1:54:39

Let's do it. Well,

Kyle Pierce 1:54:41

Shane, what do you what do you have going on these days?

Unknown Speaker 1:54:44

Well, you can find me on Instagram at lightning wildflower, and I offer tarot readings over zoom. So you want more information on how to book that with me, you can just contact me And yeah, that's that's what I've got going on right now. What about you?

Tristan Paylor 1:55:06

Okay. I was just gonna say I highly recommend having your tarot cards read by Shay.

Kyle Pierce 1:55:12

Yeah, well, what do you have going on Tristan,

Tristan Paylor 1:55:15

you can also find me on Instagram, as well as Twitter and Tumblr, at that sign astrology. You can visit my website at bad sign astrology.ca and book a reading with me there. And I can do a birth chart reading, I can do forecasting, I can do synastry and all that good stuff, whatever you call,

Kyle Pierce 1:55:39

the huge this podcast and my website where you can book a reading with me at Kyle Pierce astrology.com. And I think that's it for the most part. But I think there's a couple things I wanted to say before we wrap up. If you're listening on Spotify, please just take five seconds as long as you're not driving, open up your phone and just hit the little five star rating. Diddy and that would help us out enormously because you know we want to grow the podcast right? If you if you love astrology hotline, show us your stars. All five of them.

Shay 1:56:17

Yeah, only if you love it. If you don't love it, just I

Kyle Pierce 1:56:21

mean if you don't love it, you can still do it and just be be helpful like that. But also, yeah, if you listen on Apple, you know, Apple podcasts, you can rate us there really helps. And you know, even better leave a review. But you can also follow astrology hotline on Twitter now at Astro hotline pod to get the latest on the podcast and can also ask a question through the little question question thread and just might end up on an episode. Anything else?

Tristan Paylor 1:56:58

That's it for me? Yeah, please ask us questions. We need your questions,

Kyle Pierce 1:57:03

questions. We're hungry. Yeah, thank you all for listening. And we will see you next time.

You have a question you would like to hear answered on astrology hotline. You can send us an email at astrology hotline pod@gmail.com

Transcribed by https://otter.ai