The Signs of the Zodiac III - Astrology 101

Kyle Pierce 0:05

Hello, and welcome to astrology hotline, the podcast where we answer your burning birth chart and astrology questions. And we are back for part three of our deep dive into the signs. And joining. Joining us once again is Bonnie of Mayday astrology. (Hello.) Thanks for coming back Bonnie. And Tristan is also here as well. (Hello.) Yeah. How are you guys enjoying the the ingress of Mars into Capricorn so far?

Bonnie May 0:36

I'm really enjoying it. It's in my first house. So actually, probably tomorrow or the day after? Yeah, probably the day after Mars will be right over my ascendant so I'm kind of a little anxious about that. But also, so far, I've just gotten a lot of energy. I didn't like Mars in my 12th house. So I'm excited.

Kyle Pierce 0:56

Yeah, Mars doesn't know what to do itself in the 12th house. (Bonnie: Just noise) Actualy, it's Tristan's Mars return so happy Mars return Tristan.

Tristan Paylor 1:04

(Bonnie: Yay!) Thank you. Thank you. So far, I'm tired. So not what I was expecting. But here we are.

Kyle Pierce 1:14

Gotta get pumped up, you know, ready to destroy this podcast episode? (Bonnie: Mars.)

Tristan Paylor 1:20

I am ready.

Kyle Pierce 1:21

Destroy our listeners brains with your wisdom.

Bonnie May 1:24

Yeah, Mars in Capricorn is the destroyer.

Tristan Paylor 1:25

Natural insights.

Bonnie May 1:29

Destroyer.

Tristan Paylor 1:30

So far, the only really mars-y thing that's happened to me is that I was given a plate of really spicy food. And I am a baby when it comes to spicy food and the spice mix and this in particular was making me cough like crazy. So that's been my introduction to my Mars return suggests spicy food, purging my respiratory tracts.

Kyle Pierce 1:59

Maybe you just need to be the spicy food purging everyone else's respiratory tract. (Bonnie: Oh, I like that.) Maybe that's the key. You know? How can you be more spicy food, Tristan?

Tristan Paylor 2:07

That’s the key to mastering Mars. How can I be spicier? How can I irritate other people's nasal cavities.

Kyle Pierce 2:16

Get spicy or be spicy-ed.

Bonnie May 2:19

That seems that seems pretty Mars. Yeah, it's like either. Either you bite or Someone bites you. Yeah.

Tristan Paylor 2:31

Okay, we are moving on to Leo and Aquarius, which is timely because at the time of recording this the sun is in Aquarius. My favorite sun sign.

Kyle Pierce 2:44

Yeah, we read the sun in Capricorn last time, so it's appropriate. Yeah, oh, it's your favorite sun sign? I didn't know that.

Tristan Paylor 2:52

It is my favorite sun sign. It's not my favorite sign. Like, it's my favorite position for the sun, specifically,

Bonnie May 3:00

just the sun. Because the sun's in detriment.

Kyle Pierce 3:04

It's not so bad when the sun gets humbled a little bit in the sign of Aquarius.

Tristan Paylor 3:10

That's how I feel. I feel like the Saturn ruled sign of Aquarius holds the sun accountable at this time of year, the sun can't just you know, do whatever it feels like and take advantage of its position of authority. The sun and Aquarius will be like, you know, here are here are the consequences of your actions. And here are the people who are affected by your decisions and they would like to have a word with you.

Bonnie May 3:41

That is very Aquarius of like, yeah, talking to the king we're like you're gonna be held accountable for this like your power is like lesson during this time. So people are gonna have a word with you.

Kyle Pierce 3:53

It's something that is just a strong theme with Aquarius in general. And then probably comes up, I mean, comes up a lot with the sun in Aquarius, is that you really get like almost the archetypal, like challenger of authority, you know, whatever, whoever is in power right now, Aquarius is there to to hold them accountable, think of an investigative journalist, to some degree not so much the investigative, but what journalism is supposed to be is a check on power. And that's was kind of the whole idea of democracy in a sense, or at least American democracy, to have checks and balances and to have, you know, power spread out as opposed to consolidated in one person. And I think that is a strong theme with Aquarius and what Aquarius planets tend to be shooting for. Not that Leo is you know, just trying to be the king and rule the roost. You know, Leo can be fair.

Tristan Paylor 5:00

I think I mean, Leo has a big heart, Leo, that's, you know, another thing we haven't really talked about. But I don't really think about it that much, unless I'm thinking about Leo, the fact that the signs got matched up with parts of the body at some point in the history of astrology. And Leo was said to rule the heart. You know, it's the sun. And Leo is the sun rules Leo and the sun is the giver of life on earth, and the giver of heat and light that allows us to see what we're doing and allows, you know, plants to the light of the sun gives food to the plants, which give food to everybody else. So it's a very life giving sort of sign. And I think it's a very big hearted, generous sign at its core. That is fundamentally about, you know, the sun is the center of everything, the sun is the most visible thing in the solar system, it's the brightest thing in the sky. So, you know, Leo gets stereotyped as wanting to always be the center of attention, and always wanting to be seen and being on stage. But I think it actually takes a lot of courage to be visible and to act as a center of things. And that, you know, much like I was saying, with Aries, which you know, as a place where the sun is exalted, so Aries and Leo, do you have some similar qualities? I think, you know, one of the virtues of Leo is that, you know, when you allow your light to shine, other people feel like they have permission to also let their light shine and often just takes, you know, it's like, the the dance floor is empty until that first person gets on it. Sometimes Leo is the person who's like, you know, I'm willing to look like an idiot, I don't really care if people see me, I'm totally cool with that I will get into the middle of the dance floor, and have people see me, you know, doing my thing. And then other people are like, now I suddenly have the courage. I wanted to get up and dance, but I was too scared. And because, you know, there's this solar light, who doesn't care about looking goofy, in the middle of the dance floor. I feel like I can get up and do it. Now.

Kyle Pierce 7:13

I really like that point. Because actually, I often think of like, Leo, when it's operating really well, right? Like, or just like, you're kind of quintessential. Leo is that like, person that kind of leads by example. Like, you know, if it sees a bunch of wallflowers on the dance floor, you know, they'll just go out there and dance and just kind of show you know, show everyone that like, hey, it's fine, you know? Not that it necessarily occurred to them that they're gonna look stupid.

Bonnie May 7:39

Yeah, they're like, No, I'm not gonna look stupid. I look great. look fabulous. I mean, I'm great. You can look great, too. Yeah, like you'd be like,

Kyle Pierce 7:49

I think there's an authenticity

Bonnie May 7:53

Yeah, like authenticity as a Leo word. Yeah, I think of like my favorite Leo's like, because I think Leo is stereotyped as being like all about themselves and like narcissistic and certainly there's like, I think there's like healthy and unhealthy aspects of every sign but a lot of my favorite Leo's are people that are like, comfortable in the spotlight. But they also like want to share it with people. So they're like shining their light on other people and encouraging other people. Like I have a handstand coach, who is like the most Leo person I ever know. Like, she's very enthusiastic, and like energizing. And she's like, so encouraging, like, whenever make any tiny little milestone and like, I'm always thinking, I look stupid, and she's like, No, you look great. This is awesome. And she's like, very, like she just like, uplifts everyone. And like even though she's like, you know, finding and center of attention, she also wants to like, share that with everyone else. And she wants this is a reflection on her too. It's like, you know, I'm teaching y'all and y'all are like I want y'all to know how great you are too. And I think of like a lovely generous like as a yeah another quality of interest in said like, they're very generous with their light.

Tristan Paylor 8:58

Yeah, I think of Venus and Leo as being you know, wanting to share gifts wanting to bestow gifts on people.

Kyle Pierce 9:06

On the note of generosity, the Leo generosity quality, it's, it can be very, it's very tied to, like how much it has to offer as well. I think that maybe where you get some of the more negative Leo traits is when its own abundance of light is in question in some way, you know, or if it's, damaged in some sense, like where it's kind of like equal to, I don't know, it's like, if the sun is feeling good, like, you know, when it's in Leo in the summertime, we're all feeling it. It's summer, it's warm. Well, when the sun is not doing so hot. We all feel the coldness of it.

Tristan Paylor 9:44

I guess I don't know how much we've talked about the seasonal symbolism where the sun is in Leo, at the height of the sun's powers you know, in the middle of summer when the days are long and hot in the northern hemisphere, and then the sun is in Aquarius, you know, in the sign of its egg. Seiler detriment, during midwinter when you know the sun is, is cold and dark. But I think Bonnie might have pointed this out when we were talking about Capricorn The interesting thing about those winter signs is that the hours of daylight are actually increasing. And I think one of the modern associations we get with Aquarius is hope, where it's like, you know, Aquarius, Leo is, is able to sort of be enthusiastic and cheerful and generous and everything because it represents a time of abundance and plentiful life. Aquarius, you know, being Saturn ruled is a little more critical, like the sun, you know, is more like, you know, I'm going to, I want to lift everybody up, everyone can do it. And Saturn is a little bit more like, well, here are the things that are wrong, or you know, the problems with this idea. And you get that like Aquarius criticism of power, you know, or they're willing to humble people and kind of like, take them down a notch. But, you know, even even though there is that sort of symbolism of like darkness and criticism and sort of opposing power, there is also that symbolism of hope, as the days are increasing in length. And it's sort of like how do we is, you know, similar to the symbolism of Capricorn, where it's about, you know, how do we keep ourselves going during a dark time, but I think being an Air sign. Aquarius, is about that on a more in a more social way. Like, where Capricorn knows more about sort of the material reality of scarcity, and how we're going to, you know, maintain shelter, and, you know, get enough food and everything, it's like physical survival. Aquarius is more of a social survival, you know, how do we, how do we keep a community together and prevent like fighting conflict, when resources are scarce? How do we, like band together for the sake of strength when resources are scarce?

Kyle Pierce 11:55

What are we going to do when it does get warm again, when you know, the sun comes back into power, in a sense, or, you know, when, when the ideal future comes? Like, how are we going to build a better future?

Bonnie May 12:06

Yeah, cuz there's that, you know, idea that, you know, we're still in the middle of winter, but the sun is increasing. So, you know, we're going to be planning for like a, you know, new crop season, like, things are going to come back, but it's going to be a long, it's gonna be a long trip for that. So, yeah, I think it also makes sense with like Aquarius following Capricorn season, because like you said, interest in Capricorn season in winter is kind of more like about like, focusing on resources and like, we need to conserve this. We need to like, you know, see how much we have and see how long it will last and yeah, Aquarius season is a little further along in winter, where it's like, okay, we might be starting to fight a bit more about this. So that maybe that's where Aquarius comes in is like okay, how are we going to get creative with what we have?

Tristan Paylor 12:58

Yeah, and inventiveness and resourcefulness? I think a real Aquarian qualities I think of like, something I hear about. I mean, I, you know, I guess it would have to be in, in modern astrology. So we're talking about electricity, you know, that's a pretty recent phenomenon. And, you know, Aquarius gets associated with electricity and technology. Which is interesting, because I think, you know, Mercury usually, traditionally gets more of the symbolism of technology. But I think in the case of Aquarius, it's you know, less about like, Oh, fun gadgets, and, you know, the diversions and games and like things that help us communicate and share messages. And it's more about like, okay, times are tough, we're cold, it's dark. We need to be creative and come up with solutions to these problems. And so there's that innovative inventive quality to Aquarius, where it's like, hey, it's cold and dark. Here's, you know, electricity, how do we harness this? How do we make this into a kind of technology? So that, you know, we can wait out these dark days?

Bonnie May 14:09

Yeah, I think Tristan, I was asking you about Aquarius and winter. And I thought that was that was brilliant. When you said that. And I also like further along, but like inventing, inventing the internet, I can see that as being like a very Aquarius like breakthrough of like, Oh, we're really bored during this time. There's like not much to do it's really cold. Let's like invent something so we can look at cat pictures and and talk to each other when it's too cold.

Tristan Paylor 14:33

Yeah, and I mean, communication is a part of all the air signs too, right. So anything that aids that communication, and I feel like with Aquarius, too, because it's like it's ruled by Saturn, which is one of the the is the slowest moving of the traditional planets. So you know, represents things that happen on a larger scale. So the you know, idea of like the collective of humanity or things happening on a global scale, like having a global community is very Aquarian, like being able to be in touch with people literally halfway across the world. Is is very Aquarian that like large scale social structure kind of thing.

Kyle Pierce 15:13

Yeah, that makes me want to say I don't think we did this. Speaking of structures, didn't do it at the beginning, but probably just maybe a couple basics of sign of Leo and sign of Aquarius is that Leo is a fire sign, it's fixed fire. And Aquarius is an Air sign. It's fixed air. So we're kind of inherently dealing with a little more of that. I wouldn't say ideational kind of territory, more, maybe more social and more active, more outwardly focused energy, as opposed to Cancer and Capricorn, which is a little more embodied a little more grounded, a little more experiential.

Tristan Paylor 15:52

And that's a Those are good words for it. Yeah.

Kyle Pierce 15:55

Yeah. So like big picture, fire, air stuff, like social structure, society power, totally come up. And they're the only two signs that other than Gemini and Sagittarius which mean in some systems, you get the the north and south node that have their exultation and fall on that axis. Leo and Aquarius is just Sun and Saturn, pure sun, pure Saturn,

Tristan Paylor 16:21

and nothing exalts in either of those signs because the sun will not share its throne with anybody, the moon will share their throne, but the sun will not share their throne. Yeah, so they will not exalt another planet.

Kyle Pierce 16:40

Like what you were saying earlier trust and about the seasons, right? And that, you know, with Aquarius, you do get the it's like probably the coldest time of the year, the days are starting to get longer. So you know, you have that s that element of hope and Aquarius, for warmer days to come. But it's interesting that the sun is exalted in Aries, because it's the beginning of spring, you know, when the sun is empowered and like coming into power, you know, but the summer solstice is the, on the cusp of cancer, which is actually really the zenith in the sense of the sun's power in terms of length of day, right? And when the sun's in Leo, it's kind of plateaued, but it's actually on its way towards losing power. So there's like an interesting sort of reversal with Leo and Aquarius, where they're, they almost they can flip or switch significations in a weird way that I feel like other signs. It's hard yeah, I

Bonnie May 17:47

was thinking about that too. Because um, because Leo is you know, signified it's like a very generous sign and you know, that's ruled by the sun that makes sense but yeah, like you said it's during Leo the Leo season is during the time of the year when the sun is declining when we have like the like, yeah, yeah, during the summer solstice you have but you don't know we don't feel it yet. We had during the summer solstice and cancer season you have the longest day so by the time you get to Leo season, the light is starting it's like gradually getting shorter but it still feels so hot and you don't really notice it and it makes me think about like how like generous like the figure of like Leo is and like maybe with some of that generosity, there's like like losing power and maybe not realizing it and like just like giving so much away keeping to and maybe then also because like Leo kind of like represents this like kind of monarch or king. Just like you know, it takes a lot of effort to hold on to power and I think that's what queer Aquarius challenges is like, you know, you need the voices of other people and Leo's like kind of Jolly like I kind of see Leo as this like really jolly King he's like yeah, let's just do all this like do all the things I want to do and then at a certain point you have to recognize that you can't do every like you know in order to rule people you can't do everything and you know they're things you have to manage and that's where some of that Aquarius Saturn criticism comes in with like how do you rule like a group of people

Tristan Paylor 19:20

and you can't do everything yourself? You know, like you actually need to delegate or have a team Yeah, taking it taking on too much I think is definitely a fire sign trait in general biting off more than you can chew.

Bonnie May 19:36

Yeah, or acting like a lot more confident than you really are. Because I think that is something I noticed with some Leo's that they are they are really confident but sometimes maybe they are hiding something that maybe they're a little less confident of but like they have this like brave face that they show everyone.

Tristan Paylor 19:55

I think the thing with with Leo is that like having the sun in Leo A lot of pressure, because you know, that people are watching you. And you feel like, you know, you have to put on the brave face, like you have to give the good performance, everything, everything is a performance. And, you know, the sun is, is in its own domicile and Leo. So that's, you know, supposed to be, like an easy placement. And it means you know, the sun has all the resources it needs. And so you know, the idea in astrology is that having the sun in Leo is great, and you just have endless confidence, and you have everything you need to let your light shine, but it's obviously not that simple in reality, and it's, there's, I think, you know, the planets that are in fall or detriment can feel like overlooked or, you know, like, they aren't given the resources they need to succeed. And then on the flip side, the you know, planets that are, in their own signs are exalted, or it's kind of like, you know, the, the gifted kid who's like, a ton of pressure is being put on them to succeed, and they're like, I just want to play with the other kids, like, I don't, really, you're not really I don't want to be like, the face of my entire family. And like, you know, I don't want to be responsible for like, it, you know, it's like, the, everyone is so proud of you. And they're, like, you are an extension of their pride kind of thing, I think can be like a struggle for Leo, where, you know, it's not always that easy. And so you know, you don't always show like the ways in which you feel inadequate, or you don't feel up to the task, or maybe you don't feel like being seen, maybe you just want to, you know, be hidden for a little while, but you don't feel like you can express those feelings openly. You don't want to let anybody down.

Kyle Pierce 21:53

Yeah, well, that's, I mean, you get a lot of significations with, with Leo the loyalty. There's an MBA entrance loved sign of Leo's like, nobility and virtue and all that. But really, I'm thinking about because you brought up pride, and that is, you know, an important element of Leo. And it's not necessarily a bad thing. Pride is a good thing, it's gonna be proud of yourself and the things that you accomplish and the things that you do. And then, of course, it can go too far. And just thinking about how that point of the year where the sun is in Leo, you know, it's at the plateau of its power. It's like, The King is so powerful, you can't imagine where the end might come. But, you know, all like dynasties, you know, they all they kind of go through that, that process of rising in power reaching a zenith, and then you know, eventually things, just entropy. Right? But what do they say about pride? Like pride cometh before the fall the dark side of pride, as is hubris, you know, thinking that you're capable of more than you actually are. Were kind of on the reverse side. With Aquarius, you get just maybe underrated. signification of Aquarius, maybe because we're so used to the sun, maybe in Aquarius, but there it's a humble sign pride versus humility, I often think of with Leo and Aquarius.

Bonnie May 23:22

Yeah, I think Aquarius. If you try to compliment someone who has like a lot of Aquarius placements, like, I noticed, like, they tend to not be very good at accepting karma. Or they'll, I might be speaking on myself a little bit too. But like, when I find that, like, when I get complimented, I'm like, I want to immediately share it with other people. But like, No, it was the whole group that did this. It wasn't like just me and like, that's Aquarius, like, this is the group effort. Like, it's not, there wasn't one person that did everything. You know, there wasn't like one king that did everything. There was like a whole group of people, like people's different opinions and thoughts went into this, and we had this democratic process, which is, I mean, that's another thing we can get into Aquarius, about like that being sometimes too idealistic, where, you know, maybe like one drawback of Aquarius is like, sense of like, I mean, maybe not even idealism, but like wanting everyone to get involved is that sometimes it makes things go a lot slower. And I guess like, you know, being in winter that maybe that's the time to do that. But you know, you could say that like, and with Leo, at least like one person taking up leadership, you know, if there's something dire going on that might be necessary sometimes, whereas Aquarius might be more interested in like taking longer to get more consensus to get more feedback from other people.

Kyle Pierce 24:43

I really liked the funny brought up that the difficulty maybe for Aquarius to accept compliments, but also that yeah, wanting to like sort of look to the group that it's part of as that's kind of where Aquarius will derive its pride some degree where it's deriving maybe pride from the group it's involved in or from, you know, like what we did together as opposed to what I did,

Tristan Paylor 25:03

yeah, like that. It's very, very similar to the Aries Libra axis, except kind of scattered up, where with Aries and Libra, you're dealing with the individual versus partnership. It's the first sort of like, there's the Aries is the awareness of being a separate individual, and everything that entails and then Libra is the awareness that there is another person there the awareness of the other the awareness of other people and the sort of like having theory of mind, like being able to that that stage you know, in childhood where we develop theory of mind and we recognize that Oh, other people also have like their own thoughts and experiences just like I do. And then with with Leo and Aquarius, it's similar where Leo is more focused on the power of the individual and Aquarius is more focused on the power of the group and the recognition of it not not only do I exist in one on one relationships with other people, but I also exist as part of a community as part of like, it is a Saturn ruled sign. So it still does have a lot to do with social institutions. like I am part of a culture, I might be part of a school, I'm part of a nation I am part of a municipality. You know, I vote for the people who sit on my city council like all those kinds of things, you're you're now not just aware that like oh, there are other people's minds like mine, but there are like ways of structuring those groups of minds.

Kyle Pierce 26:41

Yeah, I I figured out how to like jump into this but what do you guys think about that? That quality that Aquarius is often assigned with and does seem to have where you do get that sort of specialness? And there's a weird individualism within Aquarius that you know, when he gets comes up a lot more when with like, the sun or or Mars and Aquarius where it's like it wants to be seen for what it's doing more than maybe you'd like appear Saturn and Aquarius has

Tristan Paylor 27:20

I have a lot of thoughts on this, but I don't want to I don't want to railroad or run over bony

Bonnie May 27:26

to share. Well, yeah, there was one thing I was thinking of earlier. I think I saw maybe on Instagram, someone had some kind of quote and I forgive me for not remembering whoever came up with this, about Aquarius of like Aquarius like feeling like feeling like it was this is paraphrase, but it's something about Aquarius feeling like they're special, because they know that no one is special, that no one person is special. And so that's the kind of uniqueness and specialness of Aquarius is that they're like none of us or none of us are special and I'm really special for recognizing that and I sometimes feel that myself as an Aquarius mark.

Tristan Paylor 28:06

It's like I am exceptional and I am truly special. Like no one is special and therefore I am special.

Bonnie May 28:13

Yeah, it's like I'm special for for having that that unique realization that I'm not I'm not buying into this this con that any one person is no

Kyle Pierce 28:23

one else see this. You'll hear a query Yeah, saying that. Why does nobody understand the way it works? Yeah. And the feeling the burden of you know, just knowing how messed up every yes or no? Yeah, I mean, one to criticize. Yeah, I think that there is a seems to be very part of the Aquarius archetype and fate. Yeah. Because you do get you know, the the myth of Ganymede is rather heavily involved with Aquarius. As you know, I won't tell the whole story but the what is it Zeus spotted, you know, the young, handsome prince Ganymede, Prince of Troy and kind of singled Ganymede out for his special qualities, then there is a weird sort of youthfulness to Aquarius as an archetype, even though it tends to meet Saturn rules. So it does tend to deal with with older people, older things or older, more mature stuff, I guess. But anyway, Zeus falls in love with Ganymede from afar and then like lifts Ganymede up, makes him you know, the cup bearer, or whatever. But then Ganymede isn't really, you know, he's the special one. He's the chosen one in a sense, but he's not really. I mean, he's among the gods, but he's not an equal to the gods. Nor is he really part of, you know, the human community anymore.

Tristan Paylor 29:48

Like he belongs nowhere. He's an outsider, in some sense, wherever he goes, He's neither. Yeah, divine or mortal. So no matter what realm he's in, he's an outsider. And I think that's kind of that's one of the keys to the Aquarius, you know, being special is definitely a common theme for both Leo and Aquarius, but I think where the difference lies is that like, Leo is the kind of special that one's culture society approves of, you know, like Captain America, you know, our, our like shining hero in pop culture, or Thor, you know, any one of those kinds of I'm, you know, just thinking of superheroes, because there's such obvious solar symbols, right, but you know, that it's like you are special, but the ways in which you are special are celebrated and admired and seen as desirable and seen as contributing something positive to society, and people want to pay attention to you. Whereas with Aquarius, is more about feeling like you're on the outside. And that's, you know, part of that is Saturn two, like, Saturn represents those sorts of experiences of alienation of like not being it's, you know, the farthest thing away from the light of the sun, you know, you're not gathered around the campfire with everybody else, you know, you're sort of on the edge between civilization and society. And so there's that, you know, like, Yeah, I'm unique, but I'm unique, because I don't really fit in.

Bonnie May 31:27

Yeah, I love that, that. That makes sense. Because like, yeah, there's this tendency of Aquarius to be like, I'm special, like, Oh, I'm not special. And there's that conflict there. And maybe that part of that is because it depends on like, who like maybe Aquarius thinks they're special to themselves. And I think I'll like what you were saying before, like, I totally resonate that with that as an Aquarius Mars of being like, Why does no one else realize that? And like, lately, I've been like telling myself actually, other people probably do realize there's other people with Aquarius placements that also are, you know, things are coming to similar conclusions as I am.

Kyle Pierce 32:03

Yeah, it's like the specialness that. That makes you included and makes you popular versus the specialness that makes you an outcast. It's interesting. I wrapped it up really, I mean, that that's the essence of it. But I actually before I got into astrology was like my, my big revelation to myself and my confession to everyone was like, you know, I, I love attention. I seek out attention, but I would never want to be seen for seeking attention. Yeah, I want to be identified for it. Like that. That seems to me. That's my Mars in Aquarius, perhaps.

Bonnie May 32:41

Yeah, you're speaking my language. kalx We both have the scorpion Scorpio, Taurus Aquarius, Leo being the missing part of the T square. And like, I remember I remember in high school, like people always like people in school always telling me I looked like I was goth or something like that. And I would deny it, I would deny it completely. But like, secretly be glad that

Unknown Speaker 33:01

they noticed that's got this thing that you can identify. Yeah, well, I didn't want to put a

Bonnie May 33:05

label on myself of No, I'm not going to label myself but I was like, secretly no label secretly pleased that people were labeling

Kyle Pierce 33:15

that is the, the secret but yeah, the the secret pride that Aquarius wanted to

Bonnie May 33:21

let you know, now I'm older. I'm like, I'm just gonna say that I'm golf. Like, no one's gonna police me on this. I don't care. But like I've just Yeah, but that was definitely like, yeah, like a very young Aquarius Mars thing.

Tristan Paylor 33:32

I think there's, there's this sort of like, I think we mentioned authenticity as a Leo key word before and there is a sort of like innocent authenticity, almost to the fire signs. Like, there, the air signs are so socially aware, like so hyper aware of how other people are analyzing everything they do, and how they're coming across. And the fire signs are a lot more. Just sort of like, I'm just me. Like, they're not overthinking like fire fire is not overthinking how they process. So you know, like the the sun is just like pure self expression. Like there's no like self consciousness about it. There's no like, carefully analyzing, you know, your next social move, considering you know, how other people are going to are going to receive you or not receive your what kind of labels they're going to put on you or not put on you. Whereas the air signs are like I'm very, very aware.

Bonnie May 34:33

And have it all thought out. They have it all thought out and planned and yeah, the fire signs are like, I'm just gonna be myself and like, I'm not even gonna think about I'm just gonna be my pure essence.

Kyle Pierce 34:45

It's a really good point, though. I'm glad you brought that up, because I'm thinking about similarities between these axes, axes, axes, whatever. There is. A relationship with both Leo and Aquarius strong Want to the idea of emphasis authenticity? And the definite potential for hypocrisy? That both are super? Yeah, people have? Yeah, maybe calling each other hypocrites or something.

Bonnie May 35:13

Yeah, I could see both of them calling each other like Leah like Aquarius, obviously calling out Leo for being like, so full of themselves. And like, you know, you think you're the king and the leader of everyone, but there's like a peep. There's a group here and we want consensus. And then like Leo, maybe calling out Aquarius for like trying to act like cooler than they really are, like, trying to act like they don't care. And they clearly do. But yeah, there, there's a lot of potential for calling out between those two sides,

Tristan Paylor 35:39

there can be like, you know, when it comes to social awareness, there is sometimes a performative aspect to that. And I think, you know, like, the performance of social justice can be a thing where, like, that's something that Aquarius needs to watch out for, you know, like being being like, well, there's a group here who needs consensus, and, you know, I'm going to call call people in power to accountability can sometimes be a way of like, getting acceptance from the group, you know, Leo's like, I'm going to express who I am to try and get acceptance from the group and Aquarius is more like, well, I'm going to sort of perform in a in a different way, I'm going to perform my social awareness.

Unknown Speaker 36:29

That's really good point.

Bonnie May 36:31

Yeah, each sign has like, a spectrum of ways that they portray themselves. Like there's the more authentic Aquarius like that, that is like, I don't know, I really want to know what everyone really thinks I don't want my opinion or like, I don't want your attention. And then there's like, swaying to like the more performative side and and it's the same thing with like, Leo's like, there's like a Leo Leo leader that's like more abusing power, like I'm all about myself. And then there's like the LEA, that's like, No, I serve the people. So there's like a spectrum of like that. And they so I think this with this axis of Aquarius and Leo, they kind of need each other to balance that. Of like, Leo needs a little bit of Aquarius to see like, Oh, I'm like leading this group of people and like, what does it take to to have like, the right sized amount of pride like enough pride to where I can be a bold leader, but also recognize that I'm serving these people like they're looking at Aquarius, like the people and then Aquarius is like looking at Leo? And I'm not Yeah, I'm trying to think of what Aquarius is like learning from Leo. If anyone has any thoughts on that, let me know group think Aquarius mind powers.

Tristan Paylor 37:35

I am. Well, I'm just thinking about like, what communities leading leaders and communities do you need leaders? Yeah,

Bonnie May 37:41

community, they need they need. Because eventually, like with the group consensus, like, you know, you do have to take a point and stop and say, Okay, this plan isn't perfect, but we have enough to go forward. And we just need someone to like, take a step and start that process. And, you know, the group will be there to keep that person in check. But there needs to be someone that's going to take a lead on and you can't just like wait for every single answer from every single person all the time, unfortunately, until we all become telepathically connected.

Tristan Paylor 38:15

I think that I mean, we've we've definitely implied this many times, but just to make it explicit that the, one of the major themes of the axis of Leo and Aquarius is power, and social power, obviously. And I'm thinking, you know,

Unknown Speaker 38:32

grab a toss going,

Tristan Paylor 38:33

Yeah, going going back to, like performative, you know, social justice. You know, I can think of people in my own life where, like, you know, for example, when I was transitioning, I was really shocked by the responses of certain people in my life where there were some people who were not necessarily who were, they were a little more naive, when it came to social issues, they weren't as aware of all the nuances of social issues and of gender, but when it came to actually, like, you know, treating me like a human being, they hit it out of the park. And then I had people who, you know, were super involved in activist circles, who considered themselves like, they kind of they made it part of their public persona, that they were LGBTQ allies and they were always, you know, directly involved in like pride events where they lived and you know, were very, you know, loved love to let people know that they had a trans friend and how you know, how much they support me and all that kind of, but when it came to like actually doing the bit the actions like not just you know, knowing the right vocabulary, I feel like this is sometimes the where fire can teach air something because fire is a little bit more about action, and it's a little bit more like present and tangible. Air can be a little more abstract where it's like, you know, you know the right words to say. But when it comes to actually walking the walk, do you walk the walk, and that's where I found, like, some of the people who were more, you know, positioned themselves as being like, super socially aware, really failed me where you know, they couldn't, the bare minimum is like, get my name and pronouns, right. And when I would call these people to task because their identities were so wrapped up in being good allies, they could not their egos just could not handle a trans person very politely saying, like, it's been about a year, since I transitioned, and you're still not getting my name and pronouns, right. And like, I want to have a relationship with you. And this is something we need to talk about, I don't need you to get it right right away, and they just immediately on the defensive, and all those connections have ended, because they couldn't handle it. Whereas the people who didn't like position themselves as being super, super socially aware, you know, would often catch themselves and just immediately correct themselves say sorry, and like, it was fine it because their ego wasn't wrapped up in needing to be a good ally. And having a public persona that revolved around being super socially aware and being involved in activism.

Unknown Speaker 41:22

I love that that was brilliant. You know,

Tristan Paylor 41:26

that's where you need that balance with Leo and Aquarius, is Aquarius can get too abstract and forget, like, the actual living breathing human being in front of me. And Leo can be a little too naive and needs to learn some of those like social nuances. And so without the balance of both, you end up with problems.

Bonnie May 41:43

Yeah, it makes me Sorry, I guess, Kyle, sorry, Callie, are about to,

Kyle Pierce 41:48

say the performance of wokeness. Yeah,

Bonnie May 41:52

I could go on forever about that. And also Kancil culture and like, the idea of policing people's behavior, instead of actually doing things to help people is like a big thing. But yeah, I totally agree with that, Tristan, like, because I think there's like a certain point where like, the social awareness is important. But if you can't put it into practice, then it's not really that useful. Like I, I, when I was studying sociology, I got my masters and I still to this day feel like weird about saying that, but I had a lot of colleagues in my master's program that would, you know, use all the terminology and like, and I would just like, immediately, like, I think this is my Aquarius Mars, but I was immediately like, I don't want to use the terminology, because the point of sociology for me is to study it, and like, translate it into layman's terms. So I'm going to write all my essays into layman's terms, because like, otherwise, what's the point of me studying it? Like, if I like, I'm trying to, like talk to like different working class people about issues, it doesn't make money, like I don't like I don't want to use all the big words that people use, like, I just want to talk like a regular person. So because it just doesn't, it just doesn't become practical. At that point. It's like not practical to

Tristan Paylor 43:05

use. It's like knowing all the theory and knowing all the jargon versus like actually being able to turn all of that theory, and all of those like ideas into, like, you know, relationships and, and action and like, being in accessibility is something that like, I like that you made a point of trying to write your essays in a way that would be accessible to people who don't have a master's in sociology, right? Where it's like this, this makes it accessible to everybody. And not just to this nice group of people who happen to have highly specialized education in this one field.

Bonnie May 43:52

Yeah, and I think that makes me think of like, the human touch of fire signs, because like, I have one analogy I really liked for Aquarius, like I was doing a pole dance to Aquarius and like, it was a kind of a Mars remediation where it was like the because there was this one song that made me think of Aquarius and it made me think of this like giant, like angelic computer of all these eyeballs that she's like, has eyes on everything. But it's like computing things and like has it because the song had this really angelic kind of like, kind of like, ominous, but very beautiful voice. And I was like, oh, that's the voice of the collective and it's like very ominous, but then it's like very, like Yeah, like computerized and it was like with Leo and like the fire sign it's about the individual so like when you get more down to the individual you're about like relating with one another and storytelling is a big Leo thing. Where it's like let me tell you my story about myself and you tell me your story about yourself and that it gets a little more personal than like the what is the collective and the group which I love talking about the collective but you know, it does get to a point where it can be a little detached and Aquarius is like about caring while also being detached. Whereas like Leo is like is like caring, but like more one on one like more interpersonal in my opinion,

Tristan Paylor 45:08

like really involved like really personally involved Aquarius is more impersonal. Leo is more, more personal Leo's more like we're gonna share life stories you know sitting at a bar kind of thing.

Bonnie May 45:19

And they both care. Like that's one thing one pet peeve I have is when people say that oh Aquarius people that the worst people that today they don't care they don't love. It's like no, they do love like they actually love really deeply but it's at this like, they're kind of like, like this giant brain like hiding behind their heart like their heart is like behind this like giant brain that's like thinking about all these things and thinking about the larger picture but they do care. But Leo, you're gonna feel like that more obvious, like warm feeling that like really solar, like warm hug kind of feelings. Shining? It's more obvious. Yeah. But they're both carrying

Kyle Pierce 45:59

big the impersonal formal space ends up being very safe place for Aquarius kind of hide there.

Bonnie May 46:05

Yeah. No, that makes sense. Like

Kyle Pierce 46:08

carrying a lot but it's like feeling like you don't there's a discomfort I like that. Because you bonded with like, bringing up storytelling, right? And I feel like yeah, Leo, but then Aquarius, it's like wants to tell the story of the people but to like kind of turn a story into like an allegory for you know, an experience that a lot of people have. We think of Barack Obama who has an Aquarius rising as the sun in Leo in the seventh house, but he always uses the word folks all the time. If you'd like that's like a very

Bonnie May 46:43

Aquarius moon too.

Unknown Speaker 46:45

I don't think he he has I don't think he hasn't. He's the moon.

Bonnie May 46:52

Maybe I'm maybe I'm mistaken. I thought he had an Aquarius, Jupiter,

Unknown Speaker 46:55

Jupiter and Aquarius. Jupiter, maybe?

Tristan Paylor 46:58

That? Yeah,

Kyle Pierce 47:00

yeah. And then Saturn, right on the cusp of Capricorn. But just that like that folksy sort of vibe of the people in a sense,

Tristan Paylor 47:10

like the, the king who you know, walks among the people and you know, talks to them as if he is one of them, as opposed to you know, trying to present himself as being above and like, using I'm thinking of what Barney was saying with the essays, right. Or like sometimes in academia, people use language that is intentionally alienating, and makes people who are outside of academia feel inferior and stupid.

Kyle Pierce 47:37

It's like, look at me, I'm an academic and I know the smart words you know,

Tristan Paylor 47:41

exactly. Or it's like you're just to make other people feel small. Whereas you know, the

Kyle Pierce 47:46

make yourself to boost yourself up.

Tristan Paylor 47:49

Yeah, yeah. Make yourself feel big. As you know, as opposed to like that the person who does have authority on the subject, but doesn't speak as if they are above other people.

Kyle Pierce 48:06

Yeah, I think that's like very I feel like Aquarius hates like the ostentatious pneus of Leo. Pure Aquarius like it like is like we could spend all the budget money spent on that parade and your luxury dinners. And your What did the the Turkish have the house of khaki concubines? What did they call that? harem of khaki by hair. I can use all that on, you know, social reformer, you know, better. Better Schools, better education for for the masses, right? Yeah. Well, I guess like Leo recognizes that actually some of that ostentatious ness is important to the maintenance of power, you know the pomp and circumstance sort of power is you do have to maintain like a separateness or like a sense of otherness, which actually is interesting because we if you can start talking in circles with Aquarius and Leo because you guys should check out Queen Elizabeth's birth chart. She is an Aquarius, rising with the sun, Saturn, or she Capricorn. That's good about me now.

Tristan Paylor 49:21

I know I've looked at her chart before because it is fascinating and people love using it as an example.

Unknown Speaker 49:29

It is a fascinating one. Yeah,

Tristan Paylor 49:30

she's a Capricorn rising.

Kyle Pierce 49:33

Just Capricorn rising. Okay. Saturn in Scorpio is yeah, she

Tristan Paylor 49:37

has Capricorn rising. She does have moon in leo and Mars conjunct Jupiter and Aquarius opposing Yeah, yeah. That's interesting. We get these like Aquarius Leo opposition's in both the charts we just looked up for people in positions of like, massive social power where it's sort of like they are they are living symbols of This entire access and all of the issues that it deals with, you know,

Kyle Pierce 50:04

oh, yeah, well, and I, you know, I don't want to speak too much on it because I'm not an expert and Queen Elizabeth. And I might offend some that I know who know a lot more about it than I do. But I know that she did have to sacrifice a lot personally, she was never exactly comfortable with. With her position and power, you know, like the, I guess, was always aware of that need to make sacrifices, personally to maintain sort of the ostentatious Ness, if you will, the, the, to maintain the lion's mane spent hours and hours in the makeup room.

Tristan Paylor 50:41

Yeah, you can't like you can't be authentic anymore. Because your life is a performance, you can never actually it's like, everyone loves you, but they actually don't love you. They just love their like image of you that they've projected onto you. And you have to maintain that image. And so no one actually sees the real us that sort of, you know, it's always lonely at the top kind of idea where you're sort of like you're alienated and an outsider by being like, you know, the center of power,

Kyle Pierce 51:13

when she very much sees or saw for her role as Queen is an act of service, you know, that the monarchy itself, like needs to be there, but it's not for self aggrandizement so much. It's for the people, you know, it's for England needs the symbol. And we're here, our family is here to provide that. That's like a very interesting example of like, yeah, the Aquarius Leo, like interacting, clashing, or melding together to some degree. Yeah,

Bonnie May 51:42

it's, yeah, it's like the leader, that's like, sacrificing some of their, like, their own comfort or humanity for the people. And also, like, I think what you said, Kyle earlier about, like, the, like, maintaining that kind of appearance as like a leader. With Leo, it makes me think of celebrity culture, which is like, I think, like, people in the United States especially are like really into like worshipping celebrities, and like, following all their drama. And like gossip, because it's so I guess, it's like, it's so addictive, it's so fun. But like, it, it's interesting, because, like, you know, with how much like there, there are like a lot of like, social issues, and here in the United States, just speaking for the United States. But like, We love talking about celebrities who have like the most like outlandish like lifestyle and spend a lot of money on like, their hair and makeup and like the the biggest like outfits and there's a lot of like gossip and talk about them. But but people wouldn't be interested if they were like, you know, more relatable, they find it boring, but so I think that, like sometimes there are there are cases where like the people, like they really liked that kind of show. And like that theater, even if it is like, power being abused, like, you know, they're using more money, like the money that they're spending on, like one outfit could like feed 1000 people, but like, people just love the show of it and would be bored without it. So that's kind of an interesting thing about like, Leo culture.

Kyle Pierce 53:09

Yeah, but then there's like the, you know, it's not necessarily but maybe some people like a lot of people, once they have it, they're like, Wow, this is a lot more work than I thought and maybe this, you know, it becomes like its own thing that has to be fed in order to, to maintain appearances to maintain that status.

Bonnie May 53:29

Yeah. And it makes me think about how, like, social media has kind of changed some things like I feel like a lot of people I know like, cuz I hang out with a lot of pull dancers and like, you know, a lot of people I know, are like dancers or performers of some sort. And like, you know, they're not like rich people, but like, but they have the costumes and they do the performances and their social media is kind of like a, you know, big performance to that. It's a lot of times like a lot of my friends are like everyday people like have a regular job, but they have this like Hobby, that's very theatrical, and they can display it on social media, like they don't need to be a celebrity to like express themselves. That's where like some of that excess self, that self expression becomes like a little bit more, like every day, I guess. Whereas like, I think in the past and like more ancient times, like people that were like the common people would not get to like wear outlandish outfits or do anything like that. So there's like a bit of an equalizing there were like more everyday people or like becoming kind of performer even as a hobbyist. Like there's like, I can still like pretend I'm a superhero and this like one thing or like, put on a performance like Tic

Tristan Paylor 54:34

tock celebrity where you know, people are Yeah, they're like, it's like, what's the term I'm looking for? Era influence. So I'm thinking I'm thinking more of like, outside or artists, I guess where it's like, outsider artists are people who are not like, usually not formally trained artists and usually not part or have a formal art community or like recognized by the art community, they don't like displaying galleries and stuff like that they're just not part of the art institution. But nonetheless, like their art, somehow it gets sort of picked up and seen. I mean, I'm sure there are lots of people on Tik Tok, who actually do have like a formal background and theatre or fashion or whatever, but it's like literally anybody can just like, you know, play at I don't want to say play at because people are like, genuinely talented. But yeah, it's sort of like giving the average person who might not sort of be a part of like, the film world, or the theater world or the art world, it gives them a platform and they can actually like perform and actually like get some like attention and community from like, sharing their talents and performances with other people.

Bonnie May 55:51

Yeah, I totally love it. Like I love that kind of thing. Being a little more accessible people like I'm, you know, not not like a famous pole dancer, but I love doing my own little like videos and sharing them with friends. And you know, just the self expression should is like having it be more accessible to everyone, I think is really, really cool. Like that storytelling aspect of Leo. It doesn't have to be like one like famous person with a lot of money that is able to do that.

Kyle Pierce 56:21

Yeah. Well, we're going on about an hour of the Leo Aquarius access. Do we want to jump on to Pisces, Virgo

Tristan Paylor 56:30

Pisces Virgo? Onward.

Bonnie May 56:33

Are they a good segue here?

Kyle Pierce 56:34

I know I kind of had a bit of a segue regarding. Yeah, the fixed star Regulus and how it's been in Leo for the past what 2500 years, but by precession in about 2012. Regulus officially like is now in the tropical sign of virgo. And drama. Yeah, it's like the long reign of Leo. It's like suddenly like the power star star power is now in in a mercurial sign. Nerds taking over the world.

Tristan Paylor 57:11

Wow. Love this. Yeah, it is the age of Virgo folks. Yeah, it was the Age of Aquarius. It is in fact the age of Virgo. So be nice to the Virgos in your life because the mica inheriting the Earth. Yeah.

Bonnie May 57:29

I hope that makes things are helpful. Yeah,

Tristan Paylor 57:34

yeah. Virgos are like

Bonnie May 57:35

Virgos get shit done. Yeah, Virgos get shit done. They're like, there was a sign I'm most associated with that. They are great leaders and a very different way than Leo. Like they're because I think of Virgos like that I know, I've worked for a lot of Virgos, like I've had a lot of burdens or bosses that were really good bosses. And they were really good at like delegating responsibility. And you know, as annoying as it would be sometimes, like, they're really good at saying like, Okay, this is what you need to do. And like, this is what I need to do and what that person needs to do. And this is like, we're like trying to organize here. Yeah,

Kyle Pierce 58:08

I think that can be organized. Virgo can be really good at delegating in the sense that like, I know what you're good for. I know where you can be most efficiently fit into the

Tristan Paylor 58:18

system that we have. Where can you be most useful?

Kyle Pierce 58:21

Yeah, but Virgo can also maybe struggle I think that what that where it like sees it can see maybe imperfection too much. And it will want to get in there with its own hands and dig in and fix it itself.

Bonnie May 58:33

Yeah, that's where Virgo needs help is like they need to learn to delegate or just to

Kyle Pierce 58:37

like let go of the fine details which can be hard for a Virgo as opposed to Pisces.

Tristan Paylor 58:41

So we've got two mutable signs. We've got our mutable earth sign of virgo and our mutable water sign of Pisces, and Virgo is ruled by Mercury. And because mercury breaks all the rules of the traditional exultation system, Mercury exalts in their own sign and so not only is Mercury in Virgo in its own home, it is also in its exaltation in Virgo. Mercury loves Virgo, that's his favorite place to be. And then Jupiter rules the sign of Pisces, and Venus exalts there, so just just the softest loveliest most beneficent sign

Kyle Pierce 59:23

Yeah, I actually, because I feel like it's most apparent on that axis, the Pisces and Virgo and we didn't go into too much detail with this on the other ones, but like you said, Venus exalts in lovely, lovely, beautiful Pisces, it has fallen Virgo. And conversely, Mercury exhausts itself in Virgo and falls in Pisces. And when I think about like, why that is or you know what that means exactly. Because I think there's always like a challenge with an exultation to to overcome to like refine it to be Bring out like the best qualities. And like in Virgo Mercury kind of has to be more focused more. You can't just jump around and be interested in everything. It has to be more goal oriented and purposeful. And that makes Mercury really shine at what it's really really good at. But I don't Why do you think Venus disagree and Pisces is

Bonnie May 1:00:24

one of my best friends that's Venus in pisces, and I've been dealing with loveliest Hi, I love it. But also as a Scorpio, Venus I'm caught. I'm constantly just like, why do I do this? But it makes me it makes me question the entire system of I'm like, No, this is this. This Venus is too trusting. I don't understand. Like, it's too trusting. And that's, that's that's where I questioned this entire system. Because like when you have like a very trusting Venus in pisces with, you know, someone that is shouldn't be trusted. And like, what's the point of having this exalted Venus but I think, I think one of the reasons why Venus is exalted in Pisces is that Pisces is like the sign of connection. Like Pisces really wants to connect with everyone. And that with the site with a planet, like Venus, which is about relating that made makes it like so much easier to relate to others. It's very, it's very trusting.

Kyle Pierce 1:01:26

Yeah, and I like your point about the trust. And maybe a capacity like that a lot of exalted planets have that there's a challenge there where you know, Venus in pisces, it's so loving towards everyone in the sense, like, the love is like, deep in like spiritual sense. It's like, kind of encompassing, but like learning how to protect itself, because letting people in unconditionally can be dangerous.

Bonnie May 1:01:50

Yeah. It's like this great faith, like that everything will be okay, which is I guess, maybe, maybe that's maybe that is really cool. I don't know.

Kyle Pierce 1:02:00

I know, it's hard to find the weaknesses of exultation but they're there. Yes.

Tristan Paylor 1:02:04

Yeah. It's it's Virgos task is to scrutinize and think critically about things and be skeptical and doubt and that's kind of Virgo strength. And, you know, we saw this a little bit with the Gemini Sagittarius axis where we had another Mercury Jupiter kind of opposition going on where like, Mercury's task is to question things and to see things from different points of view at once, I think in Virgo, you know, one of the strengths is that, you know, with with Gemini, you get, you know, seeing things from too many points of views at once. Sometimes it can be overwhelming, Virgo is a little more like capable of being selective because it's, it's an earth sign. And so it is about like what is concrete and practical, it's about applying those abstract ideas to something concrete. So it can it can sort of, you know, from a variety of different perspectives, Virgo can sort of test them out and be like, Okay, well, which of these is the most useful? When I actually put this to the test? Do I get results, whereas Pisces is all about faith and, and feel and vibes and is not? Not skeptical? Not critical is just like, you know, everything sounds great to me, like very, you know, I approve of everything. And like, you know, Virgo is realistic that like there are conditions on things and Pisces doesn't like conditions or conditions.

Kyle Pierce 1:03:28

Yeah, I see. And it's ends up being such a hard sign to describe sometimes because it is so ethereal and sort of hard to take and grab hold of, which I think is when Mercury struggles there, it's hard to like all that mutable water that water that like refuses to be bound, or to to be contained. It's just kind of moving and flowing. Like once you contain it, it kind of stops being mutable water.

Tristan Paylor 1:03:57

You can't really define it and like mercury wants to define things like words are things that you use to define and sort things into categories. You know, like mercury is sort of like a taxonomy is like a you know, biologist who sorts all of these living creatures they discover into different categories and gives them all their names and figures out how they're all related to each other. And so there's a lot of definition going on with mercury, especially in Virgo and Pisces is like undefined undefinable

Bonnie May 1:04:26

Yeah. Yeah, I think I think I actually do like mercury and Pisces. So it's like a verb same it's a very poetic Mercury like maybe yeah, maybe they are not the best for like defining things for maybe there

Unknown Speaker 1:04:41

were things are in physical space, or

Bonnie May 1:04:44

maybe not that yeah, maybe Pisces Mercury is like more about like poetry or, you know, coming up with words that you know, inspire like, you know, connection. making up words is something I've heard like, I think Austin Copic talked about this On this astrology podcast of like, I think it was him or someone else that had Pisces Mercury talking about like making up words on their shopping list and, you know, and not being like a real word but like, you know, in their own like system and like their own life and made sense. And that's kind of a feel.

Tristan Paylor 1:05:15

Word.

Bonnie May 1:05:17

It feels like it should be a word. It's not like in the dictionary, but you know, I like this word feels good. I'm gonna use it. And that's very Pisces mercury. I love that.

Tristan Paylor 1:05:29

Yeah. Oh, go ahead, Kyle.

Kyle Pierce 1:05:31

It's just gonna share yet another story about my son because he's wonderful, but being a good example of certain things, but he has my son is Venus in pisces, but also Mercury in pisces. And it's like, he has the best and worst Pisces in a sense, but it's, it all ends up being overall good. Hopefully, he doesn't get upset with me for talking about him one day, but I remember I took this video of him once because he was in kindergarten. And he had like a girlfriend you know, sort of like it was he was at a dance they had like a dance and he danced with his his lady friend at the dance and the whole drive home afterwards was him talking just this huge grandiose ideas about love and what love was and was just he was like, you could tell he was like flying on a cloud like and it was beautiful. He was like able to actually like incredibly for five year old at the time, like express in words like some really deep stuff about love. And that's so cute. Mercury in pisces can be really good at describing Venus and

Bonnie May 1:06:43

yeah, oh, yeah. No, I love that. Yeah, I think my venus in scorpio does not relate to that like the these like grand visions of love. But my job my Jupiter Pisces definitely relates to like these like, kind of indiscrete like because like more about like spirituality, I guess because I feel like Jupiter is more about spirituality and like wisdom, like, just like this indescribable feeling of being part of something and being like, Yeah, this is great. And like, I totally like, I feel like I resonate with that just not in the Venus aspect. That's lovely. It is. Yeah, it is hard to describe it's like being part of something bigger than you and like, how do you like, like, even just like thinking about I'm just like, I want to float like out of my body. And just,

Tristan Paylor 1:07:32

I wanted to tell a little a little story a little Venus in pisces story. You have some. I have lots of Venus in pisces stories. Because I am blessed with a Venus in pisces partner, Venus and Mercury in pisces, although I will say he does not have any trouble knowing where things in the physical world are. He's very, he's very hands on. But he doesn't Capricorn. Yeah, he does have that sort of like visionary mind, in a sense. Very, very creative and artistic, which I think is you know, another one of the nice things about mercury and Pisces. But on the topic of Venus and Pisces, I had kind of a big realization just yesterday where I, you know, probably because of how I was raised, I have this tendency to feel like, love is conditional in sort of a negative way. Like, I mean, realistically, love is conditional. Like, if you're horrible to somebody that ends the relationship, like there are good conditions on relationships, but then there's their bad ways of making relationships conditional. Yeah, that it's the, it's the sort of, like, unnecessary conditions that I was thinking about where like, you know, in order, like love is something that you you deserve, or you earn, or you must be worthy of is sort of, you know, those are the kinds of conditions I was thinking of, and that's definitely a message that I got from my upbringing in a big way. And so now I find I have a lot of love to give and I want to give love but I constantly like in my attempts to love people, I'm constantly like measuring myself up to a certain standard and I'm always falling short of that standard. And so I never feel like I deserve the love that I get. And I'll get like even a little competitive about it. Like you know, I've got a I gotta like give the best gift but I know that I can't give the best gift so it's like either I struggled to try and like make something the best or I just completely fall short because I've given up because I'm like it could never possibly reach the standard of like a good enough gift. And I feel like because my you know, wonderful Venus and Pisces partner just like loves so unconditionally, and like is so supportive and so like forgiving and relaxed about everything. And then I'm like, Oh, he's, you know, he's so much better at loving than I am. And then I was like, it's not a matter of better or worse, like it finally got through to me. Like the difference between me and him is not that he's better at loving than me. It's that he doesn't like hold loving to standards of better or worse or earned or deserved or worthy. It's just, it's just love is like a free flowing thing you just give it and without limits. Yeah, it was like it was incredibly freeing from yours. Like, the thing that is holding me back is feeling like I need to do certain things in order to deserve the love he's giving me. He's not giving it to me, because I've earned it. He's just giving it to me because it is in the nature of love to give itself away. And if I can use that approach, and I start measuring myself up to some kind of standard, I have Venus in Gemini. So I also have Venus in a mercurial sign where it's like, you know, an analysis, right. And I think that's where like Venus and Virgo being like the fall of Venus can kind of struggle where it's like, I am not good enough in the ways that I show love to people, or I don't deserve the love that people are giving me when the nature of love has nothing whatsoever to do with any concept of deserving or worth. It's just like you love something because it's there. Like my dog does not have to do anything special to earn my love. He's just adorable. So I love him just because he's him. Like my cat stretches. And I think that's the greatest thing that's ever happened. Look at how cute he is when he stretches like all he has to do is just exist. And people love him for just being himself and that's like that's how love works. And that's where like mercury kind of struggles to understand love a little bit I think.

Bonnie May 1:11:51

Yeah, or Mars in the case of like areas in in Scorpio, Venus that that's like a whole other tangent of like, yeah, that made me think of like scarcity of like resources like no like I can only love so much because if I love too much I will die or something like that. But yeah Pisces it's a Jupiter ruled sign and Venus you know being in Pisces. We're talking a lot about Venus Pisces, but it's such a great, it's it's abundance. Like there's an abundance of love to share. And yeah, that's how my my one of my best friends is she's very, like unconditional about, like the love she gives. And I'm just like, What the hell's going on? This is so much love so much.

Kyle Pierce 1:12:33

First? Well, I feel like I mean, it has been useful to talk about Venus in pisces to understand Pisces as well as Jupiter. But I mean, it tells you a lot about the sign. And I guess I think about Venus in pisces, and maybe it can be a struggle even it's like, if you like Venus in pisces, potentially, like it could break up with you. And be like, you know, I still love you, I love you forever. I don't need you to be around me. Me to love you. You know. There's just no boundaries to it or limits to it. But you know, if it has practical side, it's like, yeah, but you know, your feet smell really bad. And I just can't live with that.

Bonnie May 1:13:14

But I think yeah, boundaries is a good word. Because yeah, Pisces is kind of boundary lists. And yeah, Virgo is more precise. It's like the counting. It's like literally the counting of the grain of like measuring things. And you have to have some kind of boundary on like, time and space and unit units of measurement and like the binding labels in order to do that. And Pisces. I mean, you might, yeah, there might be someone that has like Pisces placements that maybe struggles to like, respect boundaries or set boundaries. That's a big thing that that can be a thing having boundaries. It's like, no, the boundaries are kind of muddy. And like, you know, you know, people blend into each other. Yeah.

Tristan Paylor 1:13:57

Yeah, the the metaphor of like accounting and stuff with Virgo, like counting the taking stock of what you have, I think you were you're starting to talk about the seasons. And I feel like that's very relevant to the seasons, if you wanted to talk about how those relate to these signs.

Bonnie May 1:14:16

Yeah, so I guess like with like Virgo following Leo, because Virgo is. So they're both mutable signs. So they're kind of like the transition of the end of one season and going on to the next. So Virgo is that end of summer when you know it, you're starting to realize I think that you know it's not going to be warm and like pleasant forever. It's going to start to get colder and you'll see you have all this abundance of food. So Virgo is a lot about like the abundance of that food and that nourishment. But also the realization with that abundance comes a lot of responsibility. Like you have to start harvesting everything and like making sure that it's sorted and measured. Make sure it's not going to spoil. Make sure there's enough for everyone. So there's a lot of responsibility that comes As of that season of like this transition to like the first big harvest of, you know, making sure the food like in order to make sure the food will ask for the winter, you have to start with the first harvest and like how to make sure everyone's fed and that nothing is gonna go bad. So there's that transition from summer to fall with Virgo. And then similar, similar way but different pisces, is that transition from winter to spring. And I think I guess the way I think about that is like it's like when it's still really cold, but you're starting to see like little bits of greenery coming out like you're starting to feel like some more warm weather but still, like it's more inconsistent like here at least where I am, whenever it's like Pisces season like some days are like unseasonally warm for winter and some days are like really cold again so it's not consistent enough to like grow food yet but it's like getting to that period where we're gonna start talking about like planting you're gonna start planting things and playing seedlings and it's like this very dreamy visionary time because like you know it's it's still technically like the end of winter so it's still cold but you're there's like this great dream of like what's going to come from the spring like from the planting of like what what can we plant this time like what we what can we grow this time there's like so much endless possibility and that feels like yeah, very Pisces like this endless bountiful it's there's nothing in the there's nothing to eat yet technically, there's all this potential possibility there's like so much abundance in that like the ideas

Unknown Speaker 1:16:28

I love that and I just want to say a quick thing about systems something I just gotta say it feels feels big inside

Tristan Paylor 1:16:40

and like it's sexy significations

Kyle Pierce 1:16:45

Pisces we will talk about the underrated Lea sexiness is a sign of Zodiac. It should be obvious, but apparently it's not. But um, my absolute favorite day of the year every year, except for maybe Halloween is that first warm day between you know, when it's like spring winter, you know, Pisces season, when do you know, you know, it might snow again after this day, and it might kind of go back and forth for a bit. But that first day where things thaw out and the sun is out, and like snows melted, and it's just like, it's the smell of that day smells amazing. And like Life is like breathing into the world again. That's what Pisces feels like. To me. It's it's like, ah, like this refreshing, like breath of life, you know, where you're, you're stepping out and it's all these possibilities are open. But like, you're not even focused on the possibilities. You're just it's like you're focused on how sensually enjoyable this moment is.

Tristan Paylor 1:17:47

That's beautiful. I think you've you've nailed it for the feeling of Pisces. Well, thank you. I'm thinking, yeah,

Bonnie May 1:17:57

it's very dreamy.

Tristan Paylor 1:17:58

Yeah, I'm thinking of, you know, the harvest season for Virgo as well. And I think one of the important keywords for Virgo is discrimination. Not in the negative sense but in the you know, intellectual sense that part of that season is separating the wheat from the chaff right, like you're separating what is useful from what is garbage, right. That's a really important task that is appointed to what's more the brain what's good, healthy and tossing out the moldy stuff. So you know, you can be replanted? Yeah, totally. So you get that like, where, you know, the Pisces is just sort of like open to everything. Virgo is like I am I closing certain things because they're not actually good for us. Yeah, I think that's where you get like some of the stereotypes about Virgo being like super clean and tidy, which are not always true. Like that's one way the symbolism can manifest. But really, it's like kind of a pop astrology stereotype. Like not Yeah, there's some see Virgo. It's just like one of the ways that that sort of like faculty of discrimination and sorting was good from what is bad. What is healthy from what is unhealthy or others is useful from what is not useful. Can can play up there are lots of ways that that symbolism can play out.

Bonnie May 1:19:16

Hmm. Yeah, totally. Yeah. And I also think, yeah, it's kind of interesting that like, Virgo season is like this time of like, great abundance, like, yeah, it's almost like I think there was like something that one of you shared with me, or when the group about like, Does anyone remember that tweet? It was about like Virgo, trying to

Tristan Paylor 1:19:38

find that right now. So we can actually give credit to the person who tweeted it. Because it was really good. I don't know. Did I send it to the group or just to you, Barney?

Bonnie May 1:19:51

I think it was the group. Okay. Um, tremor what it was I found it. Okay.

Tristan Paylor 1:19:59

Hey so this was tweeted by planet Mari underscore. They said do Virgos really want perfection as much as people say, a Virgo seems to always want something to heal, fix and help. How would that happen if everything is perfect most thrive in chaos? Yeah, I just I love that because it is the eighth is a Mercury ruled sign there's like being drawn to chaos factor to Virgo that people underestimate. Yeah,

Kyle Pierce 1:20:27

well, that actually really brings up a good point about maybe something that Virgo and Pisces both have in common is that they are both very, like helpful signs. And they're very like caring and like they're they're considerate, you know, they want to help they want to be helpful. And I think maybe like Virgo the way it's helpful is it's you know, wants to make sure that your your shoelaces are tied, you know that you have good meals to eat and you know, your lunches are packed and like your you know, it takes care of you on like a physical level doesn't want you to walk out the door and go to work with you know, schmutz on your your, your collar or something. But Pisces like really cares about your like spiritual emotional well being you know, wants you to be healthy. Like inside. Yeah. hears about your soul, you know? Yeah,

Tristan Paylor 1:21:21

I think of there's a description of the knight of cups, which just feels like such a Pisces tarot card to me. I think from like, learn tarot.com are one of those big websites where it describes the native of cups as somebody who brings you flowers but forgets to put gas in the car. Oh, yeah. Just like that. Is that sort of pure Pisces? Like romantic you know? I'm gonna make you feel like the center of the universe. But there's no gas in the car. Meanwhile, outside there's the Virgo putting gas in the car.

Bonnie May 1:21:54

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and the Virgo but Venus like might not be doing like the most showy display of love, but they're gonna, you know, remind you to put gas in the car, they're gonna help you do something practical. That is not very glamorous, but it's necessary for your life.

Kyle Pierce 1:22:14

I feel like that is like the sadness or tragedy of Pisces is that like it? There's a study that actually I'll plug it because I want to plug people more but Victor Cara did our relationships study that was very interesting. I'll put a link to it in the show notes. But Virgo ended up being like one of the best signs for relationships in general. And when you think about how you know what do people end up like arguing over at the end of the day or what ends up tearing people in families apart it's like that day to day stuff like the having money in the bank. Having you know the house in order and the dishes that stuff is what people fight over. It's what they argue over and Virgo will cover that shit real nicely. And Pisces is so like has such a beautiful like out of this world idea of love that then has so much to give but like in that arena it by itself. It's not it's it's arena, you know? And it's like sad that like, I don't know, the love the purity of Pisces Love is like can't really stand in the world. Think

Bonnie May 1:23:25

about that all the time. Support. I think about that so much. I think the maybe that's like my Scorpio Venus conjunct Pluto. But I think about how much like I like when like when I think when I was younger, I did have this idealistic view of love and as I've gotten older, I've just like thought so much about how like, like, if people don't have like good jobs and like free time, like it's hard to maintain loving relationships like if people don't have enough like food and access to like shelter like you know, it's hard to be in community it's like hard to maintain relationships if you're struggling and like the day to day circumstances like those physical that's like where that earth sign Virgo. It's like practicality. It's like, you know, maybe you're in a loving relationship but you're both like struggling to make ends meet and end meet ends meet and your Virgo partner like might be the one that's going to help you make like make sure that there's enough food for you or something like that. It's like very necessary it's not as sexy romantic like Pisces but it's important.

Kyle Pierce 1:24:27

Yeah, it's stuff that actually mean where do we live? We live on Earth. We don't live in the intangible space world we live here and you know we have to deal with that stuff. So not not hating on Pisces at all. I love Pisces but Virgo gets kind of under rated for its importance actually, Virgo gets like shit on honestly.

Bonnie May 1:24:52

I would love I would love Venus.

Kyle Pierce 1:24:57

They do make things very beautiful Virgo penises. It's just hard for them to appreciate. Yeah, that's how beautiful they are. Virgo Venus is your beautiful factionism.

Tristan Paylor 1:25:05

Yeah, like I was talking about, I think I talked about this with cancer where, you know, the signs that are more traditionally considered to be feminine and associated with like women's roles or work was culturally seen as women's work. Virgo and cancer are two signs that get associated with that the most. And, you know, it's really telling that like Virgo and cancer get these very misogynistic stereotypes attached to them where you know, Virgo gets stereotyped as being like a nagging shrew. And the sort of like the stereotype of the frigid woman, you know, gets thrown at at Virgo a lot, too. So yeah, I feel like there's a certain amount of when it comes to sign stereotypes, you can actually kind of see where our cultural prejudices are. When you see how people stereotype the different signs and the sort of different kinds of work and roles that are associated with those signs. We're like Virgo is a lot about thankless work, it's a lot about the kind of work that generally doesn't get paid, or it doesn't earn somebody honors or status in some way. It's often you know, work that's done in the background. You know, the person who takes the trash out, that's not a glamorous job. That's not a job that winds you fame and fortune, you know, people are not going to line up to watch you take the garbage out. But like, that's the kind of those are the kinds of tasks that Virgo symbolizes. And it's like, the world runs on Virgo, like the sign of virgo is the reason that like, you know, the the number of bolts in your airplane is correct. And they were screwed improperly. No, yeah. Everyone's like, ooh, being a pilot. That's so cool. What about the person who makes sure that the plane literally doesn't fall apart? Nobody knows that person's name. You know, craft

Kyle Pierce 1:26:59

mechanics are paid quite well though. That's okay. They shouldn't be. And so we're like it, people. We've seen Virgos show up a lot. People do not make

Tristan Paylor 1:27:08

sense but solving your problems?

Kyle Pierce 1:27:12

Yeah. It's not glamorized by any stretch of the imagination.

Tristan Paylor 1:27:15

Yeah, it's not like sexy work. Yeah. I like geekiness. Geeks. I am 100%. Yeah. Yeah, Virgo is the glue that holds the world together.

Kyle Pierce 1:27:33

Well, it's not as harsh as slipping into the bolts. But maybe Pisces is a little more of the glue is like the last question,

Tristan Paylor 1:27:41

right? Are no more

Unknown Speaker 1:27:45

oil that lubricates machinery?

Tristan Paylor 1:27:47

Yaks that Yeah, makes everything smoother. Yeah, we're like, you know, Virgo will tell you and things are going wrong. Pisces smooths everything over.

Bonnie May 1:27:58

Yeah, I think like, yeah, Pisces kind of represents like this idea of spirituality that like I think a lot of people like even if like say they're like financially struggling and like they're struggling with their day to day tasks. Like they look towards faith to give them like some some hope that there's like something better out there that there's something better to strive for. And that's where Pisces comes in with that, like dreaming. And sometimes I think one of the negative association with Pisces can be like being overzealous with beliefs, or like, escapism is one to where you're like, just trying to escape reality. But I think when like Pisces and Virgo are balanced, there's like, you know, you know, doing the earthly tasks and like taking care of life on Earth and being grounded. But there's also this, like, kind of dreaming of something else that kind of keeps you going or gives you faith or like finding the connection and things where you are. Yeah,

Tristan Paylor 1:28:55

you're finding Yeah, I think we're talking a bit about you know, I think for some other section I mentioned, like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and how like, your basic, tangible, practical, immediate needs are sort of, you know, the the bottom of the pyramid that holds everything up, and only when those are Matt, can you get, you know, the needs for meaning and community and all that Piscean stuff, but I actually think it's not a pyramid. It's like it works both ways. Yeah. Yeah. Where, like, if, if things are not meaningful if you can't find meaning in your life, and it's like, what's the point of meeting my basic I'm old enough and meeting to keep so like a balance that balance between Virgo and Pisces is the balance between you know, the meaning that makes life worth living and the faith that makes life worth living and like actually getting your basic needs met day to day?

Kyle Pierce 1:29:43

Yeah. Yeah, I think that that brings up a good point about maybe the basic nature of the signs. Virgo and Pisces is that Virgo really is dealing with sociate with smaller things. I think like Virgo is like it's ever seen those, those people that make sense I choose like, well, micro statues like micro art where they'll have like these huge microscopes on these tiny little tweezers and like, their whole deal is like, they'll control their heart rate. Like they'll they'll make moves with the statue between heartbeats. It's like, so controlled and so precise. And so it's amazing. And that like just the act of doing it is beautiful. In its itself. That's like, that's very Virgo. It's like dealing with the very tiny micro stuff, the minutia, and a sense of of reality, where it's when you're so focused on that you're, you almost don't need the meaning in a sense, because you're so in the moment of what you're doing. But Pisces is going to take your perspective and blow huge big picture levels, where you're looking at everything on like, God like scale, you know, like you're looking to bring the huge big picture meaning together and I always think of the, the hierophant tarot card associated with Taurus.

Bonnie May 1:31:05

I think so.

Unknown Speaker 1:31:06

I believe. Yeah, yeah,

Tristan Paylor 1:31:07

that's also what I've read.

Kyle Pierce 1:31:09

Yeah, I always think of places when I see the hierophant just because of like that like, like there's like a religious authority to to Pisces, but you don't get like maybe the the grandeur and grandiosity of Sagittarius can get a little grandiose, a little more showy. Pisces has that too, but it's like a low key glam.

Tristan Paylor 1:31:27

It's less flashy. Yeah, that's not it's not a fire sign. So you don't get that snake in your face. Like braid visible. Loud. Okay, yeah, six modulation, but it's a little more subtle.

Kyle Pierce 1:31:40

The ritual of um, have you watched Have you watched it yet? Trust and have you watched the call the show?

Tristan Paylor 1:31:47

Dammit. I still have like, watched the one about the priest. Right?

Kyle Pierce 1:31:51

The priest. It's the one. I was. It was such a Tristan show. I was like Tristan, you have to watch the show. You have to watch it and it's bugging me now. I can't remember the name because like

Tristan Paylor 1:32:05

is it something mass?

Kyle Pierce 1:32:07

Ah. Midnight Mass Midnight Mass? Tristan, have you seen Midnight Mass? No. Oh, you have to because it makes me think of shit. Anyway, it was my thing.

Tristan Paylor 1:32:19

Makes you think of faces.

Kyle Pierce 1:32:21

Yeah. Well, so the show Midnight Mass was making me think of just the whole, the low key. Any performative element and there's like a weird element with Pisces? I think a glam for some reason, which is not strictly Pisces, but it is. Level. Yeah, it is Jupiter. But it's like, it's opposed to bursting into the club wearing like, you know, flashy jewelry and stuff. It's like the show that the priest puts on in a

Tristan Paylor 1:32:56

sense, it's, is it? Yes. I love that.

Kyle Pierce 1:33:00

It's not about the individual looking, you know, like,

Tristan Paylor 1:33:04

it's creating an aesthetic experience. Yeah. And that aesthetic experience binds people together. Like, as, as somebody who worked in ministry, and has been in, you know, was involved in the church for many years before becoming a dirty heathen. I was involved. Yeah, I was involved in the Anglican Church of Canada. And I especially gravitated towards, you know, what is called, like high church Anglicanism, which is a little closer to Catholicism, like Anglicanism is supposed to be the middle way between Protestantism and Catholicism. So you still get a lot of those, like more aesthetic elements where like, you do have a mass. And it's yeah, that like ornate, absolutely gorgeous vestments. And like, the beautiful hymns with the with the Oregon which is like the Oregon is such a Jupiter instrument. It's just like, it's massive. And it's just like, it creates an atmosphere like you're transported into another world. When you go into this space. And there's like stained glass with beautiful art all around you, making the lighting look almost like it's otherworldly or heavenly. And like, you know, there are these people dressed in these ornate robes and you know, the front of it with like sculptures behind them and you're having a communal experience where it's like a whole bunch of people are brought together to share this experience of being like transported spiritually. And so yeah, it's not like showy in the sense of a fire sign that's more about like theater performance, but it's like the spiritual theater that creates a shared experience, I think of like, or

Kyle Pierce 1:34:57

like transcends reality. For instance, Has your connection with the Divine

Tristan Paylor 1:35:02

it transports you from the Yeah, from the mundane to the sacred, like your Yeah. And that's like part of the actual theology of communion. There is a point like during the Eucharist, where like the people like the people who are gathered or raised up to be among the saints, and Christ and the angels, so it's like it theologically you are like, technically sort of in heaven.

Bonnie May 1:35:27

Okay. Sure. I love this. That's actually very, something I want to touch on. Like, that's perfect. But like, sometimes I wonder with Pisces? What like with the key word like escapism? And like things like spirituality? Like sometimes I don't really think of like, yeah, like, sure there is like escapism with Pisces. But sometimes I think that the Pisces goal isn't to like escape reality, but to show like, what's actually there underneath the surface, like a like a, like revealing this other layer that's like spiritual that's transcendent. That's like, the connection between me and you. And like, where like these individual people like, like how they emerge. So it's like this in between almost, and I know that sounds like very Pisces, Jupiter, like, it's hard to describe, but it's like,

Tristan Paylor 1:36:18

I like I don't really,

Bonnie May 1:36:20

I don't think that's always about escapism, it can be like, there, there definitely is an element where it's like, oh, I don't want to be part of reality. I'm just gonna, like play video games and like, not think about anything else but this like this world. But I think there is like this Pisces,

Kyle Pierce 1:36:36

you can just can't, you know, meal, right? Doesn't

Bonnie May 1:36:39

Yeah, Pisces goal I think of like, of wanting to show like, what else is possible, like, what's behind what's below the surface, like what we can't see.

Tristan Paylor 1:36:48

Yeah, but it's also meant to like translate to mundane life. I think that's where you know that Virgo Pisces balance is important. Because if you go to a church service, you know, even if you go to like a really, you go to Mass, and it's all like incense and bells, and like you're transported out of your mundane life into it feels like a different world. And you feel as one with all the people that you're with, and you sort of lose that sense of like individual identity a little bit and merge with the group. There's like a sort of come down period, and then you go to coffee hour, which is all about like gossiping about the neighbors eating way too much food eating way too many carbs. Like it's very grounded and down to earth. And you sort of remember like, oh, yeah, we're all separate people again, and there are things that drive me nuts about you. Yeah.

Kyle Pierce 1:37:40

Separate now I have this new perspective on you. And maybe I can tolerate your existence. Yeah, we have

Bonnie May 1:37:45

to separate at some point, we can't all merge into one like, that's like the Pisces tendency, like let's see what happens when we all merge into one and like, what is the one collective? And Virgos like, Okay, we are still on Earth, we can't completely merge. Like, we're not gonna be able to meet our basic needs if we do that. So, you know, at some point, we do have to separate and, and we have to, like separate into different tasks and do different things. Like we can't just all be like doing one thing. Or yeah, I think the Pisces like what you're talking about before, it makes me think of which camp that's something I used to do before the pandemic that and it was like, Yeah, this like camp like like in nature preserve, like cabins where we would do like one story a year, like each year had different like myth. And like, each night was broken up into a different part of the story into like, this theatrical ritual, like costume and like, just like different kinds of like activities that we were doing that kind of immerses us into the story and like, and then and then like after ritual, there'll be snack time and like, you know, the

Tristan Paylor 1:38:48

next day there will be back down to

Bonnie May 1:38:51

it so there's like this like element of like living like coexisting with other witches, like living communally, like doing like lunch together, like making food sharing, like cleaning tasks and things like that. That's like very Virgo. But then there's like this big Pisces experience of like sharing this like spiritual like this like theatrical display together and like sharing this experience together. And yet, at the same time, I don't think anyone like people. I think people do kind of see where things like merge into one, but who will also have their own separate experiences.

Tristan Paylor 1:39:21

Yeah, and that's sort of you know, another one of those things that you might do after is like, unpack what happened, which seems very, very Virgo. There's also like, I'm thinking about, you mentioned, like being immersed in the story, Barney, which I think is another important thing we're both like Virgo is ruled by Mercury, which is all about sharing information. So with Virgo it's more about like sharing data, sharing facts, like this is the thing that actually happened or these are the statistics on this phenomenon or whatever. Whereas Pisces is more about storytelling and specifically about entering in which is what religious shul is often about like, I think both in. I see this in paganism and also obviously in Christianity where it's like you're literally entering the story like at the Eucharist, when you go up to the table, you're participating in the Last Supper, like you are there. Right? Or if you're like doing a, if you're doing like the I'm going to get the pronunciation of the word wrong with the Eleusinian mysteries. Like the ancient Greek mysteries around Persephone and Demeter, you enter into the story, you actually enact the story. And so when you're enacting the story of like, Persephone is descent, you're like, in a way sort of living that experience. That I think is very there's like that sort of storytelling element to Pisces that it takes it from being a story to being like a lived experience.

Kyle Pierce 1:40:50

Yeah. Like we are talking a lot about Pisces but virtual reality has been a big topic lately. Even just in discussion about the Jupiter Neptune conjunction coming up in Pisces, but it was like, suddenly, I started seeing Virtual Reality Reality, like everywhere. It really does it, there seems to be something about it. Like my, my very heavily Piscean son. Today, I took him to do a little virtual reality thing at adequate place, and he just just loved it. So the best experience I've ever had, which is like scared me a little bit. It's like, yeah, you gotta live in the world because he really wants me to stay here. Yeah. Because I mean, I know I have a weakness for it, too. Like I could totally. That's why I refuse to buy a VR headset because I it's like, I don't need video games to be any better than they already are. They're already good. They're already I'm already at risk of wasting my life and time on them. Yeah, Anyway, point being that yeah, many Pisces get so connected and lost in that space that it isn't really grounded in reality anymore. And you really need Virgo in a sense to like, bring you back. Like, you know, take a break and have you know some Cheerios. Oh, you're living your body. Remember your body, you still have one? Yeah,

Tristan Paylor 1:42:15

Virgos very embodied. I mean, health is another one of those subjects that comes up a lot when people talk about Virgo like health consciousness and body awareness and which I think also comes back to that sort of, you know, harvesting thing like sorting out what is good for your body, from what is bad for your body, like being aware that like eating, you know, potato chips for lunch is not good for you. The awareness that like you know, eating a like nutritionally balanced diet is good for you and getting up and stretching every half hour is good for you like Virgo has that sort of awareness that's grounded in the body.

Kyle Pierce 1:42:50

Yeah. I think we mentioned before the Virgo see what the intestines are in digestion. Yeah, breaking down of things and sorting them literally in your body. Dieticians like totally makes me think of them for ago.

Bonnie May 1:43:04

Yeah, one of the quickest way of ways I've been able to tell someone who was a Virgo was their tummy issues there.

Unknown Speaker 1:43:12

But yeah,

Tristan Paylor 1:43:14

I've got Virgo thoughts, is I think ritual is another like, you know, talking about service as being one of the concepts that ties Pisces and Virgo together, they're both signs that are heavily about service. But ritual, I think is also another one. And we've talked a lot about what Pisces ritual looks like. Whereas Virgo ritual is more like, you know, what is your morning routine? Like you get up and you have coffee and you put this much cream and sugar in your coffee and, and you you know, read a chapter of your book and like what are the sort of day to day routines and rituals of your life? You know, like I have, I have a friend I talk to every Friday at 6pm Like clockwork, you know that's an it's that's a ritual right? And those are, I think, like witchcraft is really good at recognizing the sacred in those apparently mundane rituals that like there is like Pisces doesn't get the monopoly on spirituality, all of the science or spiritual and Virgo, like being sort of the counterbalance to Pisces reminds us that the spiritual is also the mundane. And so things in witchcraft like you know, stirring your intentions into your morning tea. Or like when you're sweeping the floor, you're like sweeping away stuff you want to let go of right? So like turning those daily routines that you often do without thinking into meaningful rituals, I think is actually like some of the wisdom of Virgo.

Bonnie May 1:44:41

Yes, I love that. And I think that's one of

Unknown Speaker 1:44:44

the biggest in the morning and sorry.

Bonnie May 1:44:48

Yeah, brushing your teeth support it. But yeah, that's one of the biggest takeaways I've gotten from like, I went to like witch camp five years in a row before, like, you know, we've taken a break with the pandemic and the for first few years there would be this like period of like you know having this amazing time and then going back home and just like being really depressed like I think they call it they call it like the witch camp lose or something like that and took me a few years to realize that there was like like, like we would have something up path where you're taking a class basically you pick like what if you went with the elements or you talk about death there's like different themes and you get to pick which one you want to be a part of. And like in in the paths I would be part of like we would start having conversations about okay, like when we go back home What are practical things we want to do to remember this moment of like being spiritual and like being connected to the earth? And I think there was one term someone I think they mentioned called Keys of remembrance where you start to tie like everyday mundane activities to like a reminder of like, Oh I'm a spiritual being like I'm I have inherent worth like, like, whatever your spirituality is. But I started doing that with like things like going on the metro and DC of like, as soon as I entered the Metro door, I'm like, you know, thinking about like, whatever like I need to be thinking about to feel spiritual and connected, or like you said, interesting like stirring the tea and stirring in your intentions or like saying affirmations at a certain time. Like those timely events that occur like every day remind you like having a be tied spiritually that's like the bringing the Pisces into the Virgo like bringing the meaning into this everyday daily tasks that you need to do to keep your earthly body living because as much as we are spiritual, we're also earthly like we earthly bodies with spirit, and we have to take care of both

Kyle Pierce 1:46:34

when Yeah, like thinking about Pisces, like strengthening your connection, creation, really connection,

Bonnie May 1:46:45

your connection to real Pisces,

Kyle Pierce 1:46:48

yeah, to the Divine or whatever, like, Pisces or Virgo like it reconnects you to the physical world and, and brings you kind of into the meaning. So there's some people who are really, really into those routines and day to day rituals, like I brush my teeth at 745 in the morning, right after I wake up, I you know, then I shave and then then I make eggs and ham and then I do this and this and this. And like that connects them to their day connects them to their life that connects them to, you know, their physical lived experience, which you know, is just as meaningful as whatever you know, connections to, to the Divine you may have

Tristan Paylor 1:47:34

totally,

Kyle Pierce 1:47:35

yeah, that can be since we were talking about the extremes of Pisces and like getting too detached too lost in the ethereal realms. You know, Virgo maybe when it gets unhealthy goes to extremes it gets too obsessed with you know, the details of minutia and the perfection and the making sure that like, oh, shit, I'm supposed to have my coffee at 505 Like, why? I don't have my coffee right now. I'm freaking out. This is where everything's gonna fall apart and descend into chaos now because, you know, if I don't have my coffee at 505, then I won't have my donut at 510 or whatever. Yeah, you know, you can kind of get to those extreme ends of micromanaging and you know, obsessive detail orientation.

Bonnie May 1:48:17

Yeah, I think Virgos like, where are things? Like, I think Virgo is like the part of the like, the whole earth story that reminds me of like, oh, like when you like work hard to like, to grow something, you have to enjoy it too. And I think that's something to bring into Virgos like, you know, like this, there's that sorting and that responsibility of like, we have this great abundance and we're gonna lose it all if we don't use it. But there's also the enjoying of it too. And that's like, usually a Taurus like earthly Association but I think like Virgo like sees like the responsibility and like taking care of everything and making sure that everyone has enough and that it's clean and orderly but also like there's like this is the time where we have like the most food and we should be also like using it in order to use it you also have to treat it responsibly to there's like that two sides of the same coin there.

Kyle Pierce 1:49:09

That is like speaking of like the the enjoying of things and then I'm remembering what Tristan was saying about ritual and I'm like I'm thinking about when you go to you go to like a spa, right? And like, part of like your enjoyment of the spa is like the all the little flourishes that they put to everything and the fact like that there's somebody there to like help you I don't know, there's like a very process procedural component to your experience at like a spa and to being taken taken care of. And like, there's something very soothing and comforting about like the order of that experience where like, I'm gonna get a massage and then I'm gonna get you know, my nails done after this and like, I'm going to be taken care of which is something maybe the pandemic reminded me or maybe really aware of is just like the the connection to other people, even in being like, even when you're being served or serving someone that is like a deep connection, like there's a connection there. And it's like being taken care of physically is very much akin to being taken care of spiritually.

Tristan Paylor 1:50:17

Yeah, that's why favorite rituals from my time in the church was Maundy Thursday and the footwashing that is, you know, another it's also entering the story like in Pisces where during Holy Week, Jesus actually like washes the feet of his disciples. And so it's like, that's a very Virgo act is like physical concrete act of service. So that's true Pisces rules that water and water yeah, it's a very, the whole thing is very Virgo Pisces and like, so you actually, as part of the service, you wash each other's feet. And it's like, it's very, it's um, it's very interesting. Like being on both sides of it, you know, like, I've I've been like, in the chair and having someone else pour water over my feet, and also being the person who does the washing and like that, the way it feels being on sort of both sides of that dynamic of serving and being served is very, it's yeah, it's very profound.

Bonnie May 1:51:20

Yeah, that's like a really good Virgo Pisces lesson that I think I'm going to take with me is like this idea of like giving or receiving, like, totally unconditionally, which is something I struggle with, like both of those things of like, needing to put like a like a attachment to it or meeting to feel like I like like wondering if I truly deserve something like worthiness like Pisces and Virgo, it's more about serving others. And, you know, I have a feeling that maybe both of those placements might struggle with like receiving on the other end, maybe some do, maybe some don't. But I can imagine a lot, especially a lot of Virgo placements, you know, really focusing on serving others, but maybe not taking, taking much back. And so that's something I want to focus on is just like, oh, yeah, like the, the process of like giving unconditionally and receiving and unconditional Yeah, it's so important with that service element of this axis.

Tristan Paylor 1:52:18

I think healing is another important theme that's common to both sides, I was thinking about how like, Virgo, to me is such a witchy sign in the way that it's spiritual. And I think of like, you know, a witch with their cauldron. And they're like a POC apothecary of like, carefully labeled herbs all up on their shelves. And it's sort of like, you know, Virgo Mercury rules, doctors and medicine. And so Virgo, and because it's like, it's the intellect applied. And I don't think there's a, I guess, maybe engineering would be another good example of this. But I feel like medicine is one of the clearest examples of that, where, you know, you have to learn a lot of theory, you have to learn a lot of like, really advanced stuff on an intellectual level, and learn a lot of jargon and a lot of terminology. But then you're not just like sitting in a circle, debating or discussing it, you're actually like, going out and applying what you've learned and giving people medicine and, you know, setting broken bones and all that kind of stuff. So I think of you know, Virgo as being sort of like the herbalist, whereas, you know, Pisces is more of like the counselor of like somebody who helps you through emotional, or spiritual pain or suffering.

Kyle Pierce 1:53:36

Yeah. Yeah, it's making me think about how, at least for me, personally, like, there's like learning of something like where you're, you know, getting all the data, you know, you're taking out all the data, and you're studying for the test. You're memorizing stuff, and you're, you know, really hammering that stuff into your brain. And then once you get it, it's just kind of there in you. And like, it's like the Piscean flip side where it's just like, I don't know, once you have incorporated something, you're just sort of doing it and flowing with it, as opposed to, I know for me, even to some degree, it's like, once I know something so well, and then somebody asked me to explain it, like, Oh, crap, like, I don't know anymore. I just, you know, I just do it feels this way. And then I do that and, you know, it's become like,

Tristan Paylor 1:54:26

steaks. Yeah,

Bonnie May 1:54:28

that makes me think of like presents. Like I feel like that's something you could signify with both Virgo and Pisces of like, Virgo being like this, like presence of just like doing tasks and like being in the present moment, like ideally and just like focusing on like, you know, like what needs to be done and Pisces being about like, focusing on the present moment, and I kind of have spiritual way of like, yeah, it makes me think of meditating and trying to find your center and like, trying to be aware of yourself in the present moment, instead of thinking about 20 different things, which I think maybe Virgo being merged Roald has more of a tendency to think of a lot of different things, but the presence of like doing things for others and serving others and being with that,

Kyle Pierce 1:55:09

there is like when they're working very well, they are very present and what's happening right now in front of them, but the tendency towards getting lost, either, you know, in the fine details or, you know, in the abstract dream world, yeah,

Bonnie May 1:55:25

like, yeah, because you're gonna have like, Pisces, that is maybe not in tune with the present moment and floats away to another world is not there anymore. And then kind of like Virgo getting too lost into the fine details of what or what needs to be done next, instead of focusing on the presence of those tasks, but seems like presence is a really good, like, exercise for both of them to find in that to find that middle ground between those between this access. Yeah,

Kyle Pierce 1:55:49

like daydreaming or making thinking about your grocery list. You know, they're both ways of not being present.

Tristan Paylor 1:55:57

Yeah, yeah. That's a really good point.

Kyle Pierce 1:56:03

Yeah, well, maybe a little Piscean tragedy of its own is that we could probably go on and on and on about all these signs forever. You know, so much sniffing and not to say about all of them, but at some point, you gotta you gotta stop for we overload our brains the animal I'm also sleepy, so. But yeah, is there any huge, you know, must say take aways about Pisces or Virgo that we just want to really make sure we get in before we

Tristan Paylor 1:56:37

that Pisces is the sexiest sign of the zodiac. Well, we did we were gonna talk about the sex where it's where Venus the planet of love and sex exalts? Yes, and it belongs to it's a domicile of Jupiter fix about fertility, and marriage. And you know how prolific sky daddy is in his mess. He's getting busy all the time. So yeah, it's, you'll, you'll always hear about Scorpio this idea that never Pisces the ancients called Pisces lewd and licentious.

Kyle Pierce 1:57:16

i Oh, well, yeah, of course you would be if you had the lord of semen. Jupiter and Venus.

Tristan Paylor 1:57:23

The the lady of lube the lady lube. Yeah, you got everything goes smoothly. Yeah, you know if there's tension or conflict or roughness Venus smooths it over. Yeah, that's something that my Pisces is very good at.

Bonnie May 1:57:36

Yeah, yeah. Pisces is very wet

Kyle Pierce 1:57:42

it's always ready to go. So I mean, yeah, you get both going. How can you not be looting licentious,

Tristan Paylor 1:57:49

that's all i That's all I want to add. I just really this is the hill I'm gonna die on. Pisces needs to be at the top of I mean, every sign of the zodiac is sexy. But I feel like if you're doing one of those lists of what are the sexiest signs I want to see Pisces at the top more often

Kyle Pierce 1:58:05

than they do up there. And you know, I as a you know, I get it. I get it. Yeah, sure. Like totally. But like, Pisces is like less goal oriented. That can be a little sexy to me nice. Just go and go. It's like Tantra or something where Scorpios has like a mission to accomplish maybe it's good for it. You know, things to Yeah. Scorpio

Tristan Paylor 1:58:30

for merging totally. Yeah, Scorpio.

Bonnie May 1:58:34

The power dynamics. And Pisces like, Can we all just like get along and merge?

Kyle Pierce 1:58:40

Yeah. It won't freak you out. And it's safe. Which is its own kind of sexy. Yeah, totally.

Bonnie May 1:58:47

I think I think Virgos are sexy too though.

Unknown Speaker 1:58:51

Virgos? Yeah,

Bonnie May 1:58:53

they're they're really good. Like, I think they're pretty dominant. Just like I'm gonna say service

Tristan Paylor 1:58:59

tops. Oh, sorry. I'm

Bonnie May 1:59:07

just gonna say that.

Kyle Pierce 1:59:09

I mean yet Virgo. Well, what can be nice about Virgo is that it can communicate.

Tristan Paylor 1:59:14

Yes. Guide is very crucial.

Kyle Pierce 1:59:17

And sometimes it's good to know. Yep. Where to put things

Tristan Paylor 1:59:27

all right. I think it's time for us to end

Kyle Pierce 1:59:33

all right, well, yeah. Does that end our signs? No, that was fun. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. I'm sad for it to end but we'll definitely bring money back on for for something else

Tristan Paylor 1:59:46

for everything. Yeah, yay. More Barney. Yeah, this

Bonnie May 1:59:52

is a ton of fun. Thanks for inviting me. I really, really enjoyed this. Absolutely. Yeah.

Kyle Pierce 1:59:59

Any thing that you yeah what do you have going on? This? Oh

Bonnie May 2:00:03

yeah, my Instagram and Twitter it's Mayday astrology I'm just starting out on social media and posting more, but find me there like I'm I love chatting about astrology I'm also co facilitating a class at Star dance Mystery School, which is kind of a it's like a discord classroom but we can be found on Patreon star dance Mystery School. And the class we're doing right now is called queering the planet so there's gonna be a few different tracks like right now we're, it's Sun week, so we're talking about the sun. We're gonna go through all the personal planets and then do Jupiter and Saturn and then the generational planets Uranus through Pluto. I think after that there's going to be an aspects class starting June 1. So we always have some kind of class going on. And we'll it's a good merging of like traditional and modern astrology and like the discord is very kind of experimental and we talk a lot about like being embodied and like the signs or the planets and the seasons. And there's like other things besides the classes like meditations I'm going to be doing my first Electional Astrology packet and it's gonna be a Mars and Capricorn One. So I'm really excited because I love Electional Astrology so yeah, start ants Mystery School Patreon. And then I'm made a astrology on social media.

Unknown Speaker 2:01:20

Awesome. What about interesting,

Tristan Paylor 2:01:24

the usual stuff for me, you can book a reading with me on my website, which is bad sign astrology.ca I can do natal astrology, synastry forecasting all that good stuff. And you can find me in various places on social media. You can find me on Instagram and Tumblr at bad sign astrology. And you can find me on Twitter at badsignAstro. Very cool. Where you Kyle?

Kyle Pierce 2:01:54

Well, why thank you for asking for consultations, you can book a reading with me at Kyle Pierce astrology.com. You can also read stuff that I write from time to time there. And you can find me at astrology, number four, earthlings at Instagram, Tumblr. And then I'll be making a guest appearance on the podcast spilling ink, which is a podcast typically focused on writing and the publishing industry, but has recently began incorporating a monthly astrological check in for which I will be joining on March 19. And you can watch the live recorded version on YouTube, which you can find in the show notes. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you, everyone for listening. Thank you so much for joining us, Bonnie. We'll have you back and down. We'll see you next time.

Tristan Paylor 2:02:45

Bye for now. If you have a question you'd like to hear answered on astrology hotline. You can email us at astrology hotline pod@gmail.com

Transcribed by https://otter.ai