The Planets II - Astrology 101
Kyle Pierce 0:05
Hello and welcome to astrology hotline, the podcast where we answer your all your burning astrology and Birth Chart questions. We are back with part two of astrology 101 covering the seven traditional planets. And joining us again today is Joe G. (Joe G.: Hello Hello Hello.) And and especially dapper Tristan Paylor.
Tristan Paylor 0:30
Hello, hello. Yeah, very impulsively asked my partner to cut my hair. And then it turned out really great. And I immediately cast the chart for the moment that it happened and Kyle and I nerded out over the chart of my impulsive haircut for several minutes. If you've ever been curious as to our like, level our intense level of astrological nerdery, you have some idea about how bad it gets?
Joe G. 1:00
I'm actually so glad that you're saying this because I feel like not alone anymore. Because i just got a new synthesizer and they, surprisingly, they sent to me the location of where it was shipped from. And then the exact time that it left the thing and I was like, I need to cast a chart. (Kyle: What was the chart?)
Tristan Paylor 1:21
I hear you.
Joe G. 1:22
Oh, the chart was not good. I was kind of I'm kind of worried about my synthesizer. (Kyle: Oh, no) we'll see. We'll see. It was like a Moon in Taurus. Exactly. square Saturn on a night chart. Yeah,
Kyle Pierce 1:39
I mean, they're exalted planets, you know.
Tristan Paylor 1:41
Yeah, they both got dignity as you can like,
Joe G. 1:46
I was thinking like, maybe the Moon in Taurus could be like a verse synthesizer, because it's like a designer synthesizer. You know,
Tristan Paylor 1:53
the moon and Taurus is the synthesizer. And so then Saturn has kind of, well, what's, what's the ascendant of the chart?
Joe G. 2:00
It was Moon at the midheaven. So that was Leo. Yeah.
Tristan Paylor 2:06
Leo. So then the sun is ruling it?
Joe G. 2:09
Yeah, sun was in the sixth.
Tristan Paylor 2:14
I don't know. But then like sun in the sixth could work because the sixth is like your employees and your synthesizers like your it's, it's something that you will search for work. It's yeah, it's, it's, it listens to you. It does what you tell it to do.
Joe G. 2:31
That's true. It's actually interesting that you say that because I also like play with Lenormand cards. And I was like, Oh, my God, as my synthesizer not gonna come. So I drew two cards, and I drew like, the cross of the dog, which is literally like loyalty, like a burden, some loyalty sort of thing.
Tristan Paylor 2:49
Your synthesizer is your beast of burden. That's a Saturn is squaring its moon, because it's a beast of burden.
Kyle Pierce 2:58
Yeah, Saturn and Aquarius square. Moon and Taurus. That sounds like a burdensome artistic instrument.
Joe G. 3:06
Yeah, that's just me that like, it's a really delayed delivery, because it's being shipped all the way from Sweden. Yeah.
Kyle Pierce 3:15
Oh, yeah. I don't know it. Could it, Do you have any enemies that the synthesizer could fall into the hands of?
Tristan Paylor 3:23
Because the 6th house is the house of enemies? Is that where you're getting that?
Kyle Pierce 3:26
Yes. (Tristan: I Like that.) Though, I think for foreigners as well, technically in the six and 12.
Tristan Paylor 3:33
Yeah, it came from a foreign place. So
Joe G. 3:35
there you go. That is true.
Tristan Paylor 3:37
I feel like the story is really that it came from a very faraway country and there were delays is getting here because the moon is travel and Saturn has delays. But they're both dignified. So it is in your hands. It made it eventually.
Joe G. 3:51
I am looking forward to it. Well, I can always return it.
Tristan Paylor 4:00
And then do the cast the chart for the moment that you return
Joe G. 4:07
and then another one for when I buy it again and another one comes out all right.
Kyle Pierce 4:16
Should we should have found a good segue into our first planet for today.
Tristan Paylor 4:20
Well, are we doing Venus? Yeah. Which is relevant to synthesizers right to music? Ooh, yeah, there you go. The planet of musicians
Kyle Pierce 4:30
always on on the ball with the Segway as it transitions, right. So yeah, our first planet for today will be Venus and go over like the basics Venus. Venus is a sort of a benefic planet is nocturnal in nature, so belongs to the nighttime sect. It rules the signs Taurus and Libra aura and exalted in Pisces. Its exalted in Pisces has its fall in Virgo. And no,
Joe G. 5:12
I was just gonna say moist and
Kyle Pierce 5:15
warm. Yes Yeah, go for tropical take it away Joe Gee.
Joe G. 5:23
I said what I had to say my master class my TED talk on Venus is just warm and moist. Yeah,
Tristan Paylor 5:36
that's that summarizes.
Kyle Pierce 5:41
Although technically, right? Isn't Venus supposed to be a little more cooling in nature, compared to Jupiter? Like Jupiter tends to they both tend to moderate moderate planets are moderate things. But Venus is especially good at cooling things down. Yeah. Good. Things are
Tristan Paylor 6:10
making things smooth.
Kyle Pierce 6:12
I can think small Yes.
Tristan Paylor 6:23
I feel like Venus is when things are just the right temperature. You know, they're not too hot, not too cold. It's just like perfectly room temperature. Yeah, agreeable to life. I feel like it's important to point out since this is our first benefic planet, we're covering that the benefices have a special job. Both Venus and Jupiter, have a special power among the planets, which is that they get to say yes to things. They get to affirm and stabilize things in contrast to the mala fix, they get to challenge or say no to things. So it's important thing to keep in mind with Venus when you're looking at aspects to Venus in your chart that Venus has that power to. If there's a planet trying to do a particular job in your chart, and Venus is configured to that planet Venus has the power to say yes. And sort of give that planet a little boost.
Kyle Pierce 7:16
Yeah, one of the key words that really you can probably understand so much about Venus by just the one word like harmonizing one of the key significations of Unisys like chi harmonizes things. She, you know, makes she brings things together that are compatible, and even when they're not she'll find the you know, the commonality between two things. So like, you know, smoothing things over you get things like reconciliation, if you have a fight with somebody, Venus is the planet that is really going to be involved in reconciling mending.
Tristan Paylor 7:54
Yeah, it's, I mean, and fitting because Venus rules, musicians and art and you know, anything that we do for pleasure, aesthetic enjoyment, I often think of Venus as being you see Venus in in bands, or orchestras, where you have a bunch of different kinds of talent, a bunch of different kinds of sounds in different personalities. But when they're all together, they're able to make something that sounds cohesive and beautiful. And they're harmonizing with each other, even though they're very different.
Kyle Pierce 8:29
Yeah, Venus rules, pleasing things. Pleasure. And you know, we can go with the harmonization, like bringing things together, things that are attractive things that draw you to another person to a cupcake, or to really great music,
Joe G. 8:48
right? I was just reading the pika tricks yesterday, just kind of like refreshing on it. And when it comes to Venus, they talk about how Venus specifically is the lady of musicians who use their voice or stringed instruments. And I really had a hard time understanding why stringed instruments would be the case. But then you were just talking about Christopher renstrom. And he actually says something. And one of his talks about how he was talking about mercury and actually, just what he said, really made it clicked for me. Because stringed instruments at the time were very like new and innovative invention, like prior to that you had like, like flutes and things like that, where you couldn't sing while you play, you just play nothing else. But then stringed instruments allow you to do both the playing of the instrument and adding your voice on top of it. So you're harmonizing your own voice with the voice of the instrument and was like
Tristan Paylor 9:49
just like a relationship because Venus is all about that relationship, the voice of the instrument and the the human voice having a relationship with each other. We do something We just take for granted now. It's like, you know, people were just used to people having a guitar or singing along with their guitar. There was a time when that was novel. Some people would
Kyle Pierce 10:12
know that and means was stringed instruments, too. You can harmonize. You know, you can play too. You can make chords, even a piano. That means, technically a stringed instrument. Yeah, it's definitely, you can play chords with stringed instruments, you can harmonize more than one note.
Joe G. 10:27
Oh, yeah, that is right. That is the simpler answer to the
Kyle Pierce 10:35
No, no, no. That's the thing, but it's well set aside about astrology in general, like, you can pull so much out of something really simple. And I think, you know, when you're studying ancient texts, you know, you can do a lot of backwards logic, like, you know, you read something like, oh, you know, stringed instruments, like why you can extrapolate so much, just from that little bit of information about what what the nature of Venus is? Right?
Tristan Paylor 11:03
Yeah. It's, it's amazing going through texts that just give lists of significations and you can get lost in the list of 10 significations for hours because each one becomes its own sort of microcosm of what that planet means.
Kyle Pierce 11:18
Yeah, but I'm going on with Venus and distinguishing Venus from like Jupiter can be tricky. Sometimes. I guess my like, main go to is that Venus is a little more material in nature to like, you know, maybe signifies a little more material things like the essential things.
Joe G. 11:39
I think Jupiter is also central in a way but I think that Jupiter may be like, like, you're saying, it's less about central physicality, but more so but like, the ethereal sort of like, whoa, I'm lost in this person's body, or whatever, are these people's bodies. All the way.
Kyle Pierce 12:06
Unifying things, like, you know, I think of, you know, Venus, like joining things together, in like, a pleasing way, while like, again, contrasting with say, like, Saturn will bind things together. You know, like, I think of like welding two things together. It's not necessarily in like a friendly way of Venus. Jupiter, you know, I guess, Jupiter gets more associated with like, wisdom and kind of more of an ideational sort of perspective on things. Thank you, like, mix a bunch of, you know, you mix a bunch of facts in a pot, add some Jupiter, you get wisdom, you know, that's what Jupiter is kind of style. Joining things together is gives you sort of like the wisdom to, you know, succeed. It seems like possibility. I mean, we're going to Varna Jupiter, I'm really but yeah,
Joe G. 13:05
but I think it's like a really important comparison because they do share a sign after all, because Venus is exalted in Pisces and Jupiter rules Pisces. But I think one one good way to like distinguish it too, is that even if we think about harmony, when there's harmony, there's still two distinct, if we're talking about music, at least there's two distinct notes playing. Like they're making up a hole, but there's still individuals but now I think Jupiter is more so about the dissolving of things into one, there is no separation anymore. It's just like, everything. Everything I
Tristan Paylor 13:40
totally think is interesting that one of the things that has changed a little bit over the course of Western Astrology is that although like, in traditional texts, Mars is connected to sexuality, it's generally not in a nice way, with like, unpleasant sexuality, whereas like Venus is the sex planet. And then in modern astrology, it's more like somehow they they're two sides of a coin when it comes to sexuality and Jupiter is just sort of like forgotten as, you know, being a planet that represents marriage and children and baby making and all that
Kyle Pierce 14:19
mean, I'd say Mars. Well, like in Vedic Astrology Mars is like very much like the role of Mars in sexuality is like, not really disputed. It's like not it's, it's, it's like the second half of that or like the, the other side of the coin of that
Tristan Paylor 14:37
similar thing. Yeah, Venus and Mars are kind of like two sides of that.
Kyle Pierce 14:41
Yeah, well, if you think of like, you know, the actual just the sex act, right, the penetration in the, you know, the rough animal component of it, the raw desire, right? Is very Mars. But Venus, you know, makes things pleasant things like preparing a meal. You can just like shove food in your mouth and have nutrients and sustenance and you're fine, like an MRE military like a Mars meal. But Venus like we'll see Venus adorning things like making things beautiful, making things nice. Making the meal nice putting care and attention to it, bringing everybody together and like preparing a meal, you know, that's Venus territory. I mean, like sex itself, like is sex and like animals do it, you know, there's the sort of root component of it but then there's all the things we do that make it nice, make it pleasant make it pleasurable,
Tristan Paylor 15:36
what what it facilitates another important thing Yes. If you're just doing it for your own selfish interest that's one thing but yeah I was just
Kyle Pierce 15:53
like, that's a really good point because yeah, you need for it to be pleasurable
Joe G. 15:58
lubrication and
Tristan Paylor 16:03
just a lot of fun. And social social lubricant is in there too with like, you know, partying and drinking right and all that also being very Venusian. There's social pleasures and the things that make us right inhibited in order to more fully enjoy one another's company. Flirting.
Joe G. 16:21
Yeah, and that's the thing too, that people often overlook is that traditionally, Venus was associate linked to poisons as like, like the planet Yeah, poisons, and it makes perfect sense. Like you can use poison to heal if you harmonize just the right amount. Or you can have a good time with it too. If you just stick.
Tristan Paylor 16:44
recreational drugs are all are all poisons, like they're not good for you even you know, the the more benign ones are harmful in some way or another and alcohol being the like, primary intoxicant that humans have always used throughout history, right. It is a very Venusian substance,
Kyle Pierce 17:04
any substance in excess can potentially kill you, you know, Earth is like inhabitable because it's just the right amount of everything, oxygen and heat and water and all that to facilitate life. Venus is the planet of like finding that that balance finding the sweet spot.
Tristan Paylor 17:25
I think going back to the sort of contrasting Venus and Mars and sexuality thing, what sex actually facilitates, I think, is one of the things that makes Venus distinct because I think there's like this, there's a misunderstanding that sex is just about reproduction, but it's actually about bonding. And like most sexual activity in nature is non reproductive. It's most of the time when it's like it is for reproduction. It fails anyway, like it's that's not its only and sole purpose, but actually like forging social bonds is one of the fundamental purposes of it. And I think that's sort of the Venusian side of it is like, those intimate relationships they smooth over difficulties in a relationship they you know, help you resolve conflict, like bonobos being you know, sort of famous example of they solve their problems through sex instead of fighting each other solutions or conflict is let's make each other feel good for a while instead of yelling and throwing things. And then we'll forget why we were mad. And then all of those that those individual relationships become like the social glue that holds family and society and everybody together,
Joe G. 18:48
what would happen if we had world origins instead of World Wars? That would be a great time.
Tristan Paylor 18:56
I mean, you know, you'd have a problem with humans are very dirty
Kyle Pierce 19:06
it's funny, because I was, you know, my foray into like Vedic Astrology is they kind of address that specifically with Venus and Venus does signify the ability to enjoy sex with multiple partners, which actually mean you think that how unskilled a lot of people can be and in pleasing one partner you know, we take a lot of skill to pay attention to another person and I think that's like I mean that's Venus is just giving a shit about you know, how another person feels or being interested in you know, and what's going on with another person wanting to please them taking pleasure in pleasing other people. See people with like prominent, Venus's are good at just doing nice things. Not because they get anything out of it, but just because they it makes them feel good to see you enjoy yourself
Tristan Paylor 19:58
and there's a Uh, Venus is also like the moon, Planet of caregiving and nurturing it's associated in Hellenistic astrology with mothering as well. So it's, you know, not just romantic and sexual love, but the familial love too. And I think that that creates kind of a nice the love of a parent for their child is a nice microcosm of sort of everything that Venus is because you Venus isn't like a rational force. You don't, you don't necessarily have like thought out logical reasons for why you love things you just do. And you know, like the bond between a parent and a child it's not you don't like love your kid because they do something. You love them for their own sake, just because they're, they're there and they are who they are. Yeah, sort of like the way the way Venus relates to people is like, I don't need a list of reasons why I should like you or why it makes sense to like you or be passionate about a particular subject, or have a certain taste in something I just, I just do. It just makes me feel good. I just like it for its own sake.
Kyle Pierce 21:11
Yeah, Venus is like the art of enjoying life and like enjoying people, even just taking pleasure in like simple things. It's not a skill that everybody has.
Joe G. 21:19
But I also think that that's why Venus and Saturn can be such good friends because Saturn is a great teacher, but it can be a little too harsh. A little Venus you can loop your way into Saturn and
Tristan Paylor 21:38
Saturn Saturn is cold and dry and harsh and abrasive and Venus softens that a little bit.
Kyle Pierce 21:46
You know, Venus can like love Saturn, too. You know, Venus can find beauty and Saturn, even like Saturn tends to signify rougher, less pleasant things and less pleasant appearances.
Joe G. 21:58
But also perfection. That's also one of the keywords for mastery. Yeah, I feel like Venus would appreciate Lika really nice,
Kyle Pierce 22:07
we think the narrowness of what Saturn will approve of.
Joe G. 22:13
Only the finest will get past the gas of Saturn.
Tristan Paylor 22:18
I like I like that because it's sort of like, you know, a lot a lot of folks might have trouble sort of seeing you know what the appeal is and Saturn but Venus is the kind of character who can see, like something beautiful and lovable and everybody. And so it's like, easily able to be friends, Saturn. And like one of the things I noticed, just going through the significations of the planets through time, like you know, starting with Hellenistic astrology, going through some of the medieval texts and then going into some of the Renaissance and modern texts is that like in the older texts, Venus seems to have the most in common with the widest variety of planets like just the number of significations that Venus shares with other planets like Venus gets associated with priesthood and royalty and like that's all you know the sun and Jupiter and Venus is associated with like caregiving and nourishing which is like the moon and with merchants and trade and commerce, which is like mercury and so like Venus shares a lot in common with all the other planets so it's sort of like that ability to find things in common with other people in order to make friends is very Venusian
Joe G. 23:31
love them.
Kyle Pierce 23:33
It's a good point about Venus I think a lot of that has to do with like Venus with the like priesthood to some degree but like the the market and trade element of Venus I think has a lot to do with Venus is Venus is ability to find value in things and like determine the value of something that's actually I think one of the important signals. Important significations of Venus is actually like profit, right ability to profit in life to receive profit from things money and wealth, luxury opulence. You need you know money to indulge in the essential fruits of life. Right.
Joe G. 24:18
I love that you mentioned opulence because that reminded me of Natalie wins video called opulence. She's a YouTuber. I don't know if you guys know her, but she is just like a philosopher YouTuber. And she made like a two hour long video on opulence. But her whole thing is that she will like make sets and characters for specific things and she'll do like platonic dialogues playing different characters. But they're all like very Venusian, and they're all in these like super fancy dresses and everything has like, perfect lighting and everything is just beautiful and fine. Oh yeah, it's great. If anyone wants to know what Venus looks like, just one to that video amazing.
Kyle Pierce 25:03
Yeah, and going back to like the, the adorning quality of Venus like that is, that's all stuff that like it's fluffy and flair, you know, it's not necessary stuff, but it is the stuff that makes things enjoyable. I think of people who like buy houses, and you know, they fix them up and then they resell them, you're gonna need like all the different planets in there, you're gonna need some Mars, you need some Saturn, you know, some Morphix to do the fixing, right, but Venus will see the possibility of beauty in the house that maybe isn't in such great shape. And we'll increase the value by adding a lot of maybe not necessary things, you know, but just making it look nicer, freshening up the, you know, the hardwood or whatever, putting some varnish on things like making it look nice, and then being able to sell it for, you know, a much higher value, but adds value to things.
Tristan Paylor 26:00
The necessity piece is interesting, because you know, you think of Saturn as necessity and you think of, you know, adornments and beautification as being unnecessary, but I actually think there's a deeper relationship between those things where Venus is what gives things their meaning. So like, Venusian things are maybe not the sort of absolute bare necessities of survival, but it's not worth acquiring the absolute bare necessities of survival, if there's no meaning. And yeah, so Venus is what makes it worth even caring about necessities in the first place. So those two are actually kind of dependent on each other, which is sort of maybe an interesting comment on Venus and Saturn's friendship is like, they actually really need each other in order to work. There's Yeah, like, things that like I was, you know, looking at Maslow's hierarchy of needs and in my textbook, because I, you know, reach that the classic, you know, the bottom of the pyramid are like your absolute basic needs for like food and water, and then their safety, and then social needs. And then like, you know, self actualization is at the top, and you can't get to the top without having the needs lower down on the pyramid met, which does make some sense, but it's still not a perfect model, because it's like, without meaning, what's the point in, going on, and like in seeking food and shelter, like you, you actually need those Venusian things in order to want the bare necessities to begin with.
Joe G. 27:35
Even going back to the poison thing. Like if you talk about alcohol, like to make alcohol, you have to ferment it. And that's a process that involves time, which is Saturn. Yeah, then the enjoyment comes after, which is Venus, which is really interesting.
Tristan Paylor 27:53
And it's like gratification and delay. And those two things also really hate each other as Saturn being delayed Venus being gratification and delayed gratification actually results in amplified gratification. If you're able to resist in the meantime, you know, it's like, I could eat these tasty grapes, or I could invest a little more time and work and have wine.
Joe G. 28:14
Oh, yeah. Asia for 10 years.
Kyle Pierce 28:16
Yeah. That is really Venus, like, in its purest form is is that like, it's the art of enjoying things, which is very much it's not just shoving, you know, lard down your throat, like it's, it's not taking all the fat and the sugar and just stuffing your face with it. It's enjoying things in the right amounts, and at the right time and like, practicing restraint, like maximizing enjoyment, think like Tantra, we're here, you know, it is all about, you know, delaying gratification, to maintain pleasure for like the longest period of time possible. That's very, like Venus, which, you know, Saturn exalts in Venus's sign Libra. Right. And Venus generally does good. Does good does well, does well in. In Earth. It's complicated in Virgo, but in Capricorn, because
Joe G. 29:09
and in Capricorn, she's trying Taurus. Yeah. And then in Aquarius, she's trying Libra
Tristan Paylor 29:18
and then in in Taurus, Venus is one of the triplicity rulers for the earth signs. So there's some triplicity dignity in Capricorn, too. I love Venus in Capricorn. That's one of my favorite Venus placements, because that really is the like, I feel like that's very much what you were talking about with with the concept of tantra and like actually delaying in order to enhance gratification that so Venus in Capricorn to me,
Joe G. 29:46
right. And this Venus in Capricorn retrograde has been just like that. I'm waiting for the station.
Kyle Pierce 29:55
That's what it's like. It's just pure pleasure. Just dropped out.
Tristan Paylor 30:00
I've been having a good time.
Joe G. 30:04
Yeah, it's been interesting.
Tristan Paylor 30:09
My Mars in Capricorn needs it Venus is soothing. I think we might have gone over that a bit. But that's an important and important aspect of Venus is that Venus can soothe and calm, whatever she's near. So you know, if you have a, an antsy, aggravated hot planet, Venus can kinda like sing a little bit of a lullaby, you know, and get that planet sort of calmed down. And that's, you know, a big part of the benefics is having that sort of moderating influence where things don't become too extreme. They don't get out of control.
Kyle Pierce 30:41
Right? Yeah. Yeah. I can't remember which ancient author it was said this, but it was that Venus is the only planet that can mend what Mars severs their, you know, kind of a complementary pair, which might be a good segue into
Joe G. 30:59
Mars.
Tristan Paylor 30:59
Mars. Yeah.
Kyle Pierce 31:02
My sometimes favorite, sometimes least favorite.
Joe G. 31:08
I honestly take Mars for granted so much. I'm like, slowly but surely learning how to like appreciate it have Mars in the 12th house out of bounds. Like, not, not very present. But ya know, it's a it's a great planet when apply it in the right way.
Kyle Pierce 31:29
Mars is very much a planet that needs a planet like Venus, or something to temperate. Because Mars has a lot of great qualities when it's tempered. When it's managed and harnessed correctly. It's one that can very easily get out of control.
Tristan Paylor 31:48
Mars is like, low key my favorite planet right now. I think
Kyle Pierce 31:52
I have such a love hate relationship with Mars. Sometimes I really do love Mars, because Mars does help me get shit done. But sometimes I find Mars to be a giant pain in the ass. Because there are times when I want to do the thing that I want to do, but I have to other things that I have to do that I don't necessarily want to do and I have to call upon Saturn. And neither neither of those are really pleasant scenarios. But um, yeah, it's maybe. Well, let's say Mars is, um, it's considered a malefic planet. It traditionally rules the signs of Aries and Scorpio and say, nocturnal planet, but maybe not for the same reasons that Venus is a nocturnal planet. And it's also it's excessively hot. Hot and dry. Right? Georgie, as opposed to Venus, which is is cooling and moistening. Yeah, Mars is hot and dry.
Tristan Paylor 32:53
Separating and heating. Yes. And be
Joe G. 32:57
irritating.
Kyle Pierce 33:01
things off? Yeah.
Joe G. 33:03
We pissed it goes both ways.
Tristan Paylor 33:06
There's a certain thrill that comes from being really worked up and angry.
Kyle Pierce 33:11
I feel like Mars can be almost like the most visibly can be so identifiable when you're you're doing or experiencing Mars. It's just when you get pissed off or irritated. That's Mars.
Joe G. 33:21
Wonder why the sun is exalted in one of Mars science.
Kyle Pierce 33:27
I mean, I tend to think that the sun is like a bit of a harsher planet than then say the moon. Right. But I think the sun kind of similar to Mars as it needs sort of an obstacle to overcome, to kind of bring out its most refined, noble qualities.
Joe G. 33:50
And when it doesn't have one, I will sure look for it.
Kyle Pierce 33:54
Yeah, look for an excuse to behave. And
Tristan Paylor 34:00
I think I've been very, very slowly working my way through a series of pieces on the traditional planets, just going through texts from various time periods, and then writing a bit about, you know, how I use those planets in my own practice. And so far, I've done five of the seven traditional planets, and the only piece that has a content warning at the beginning is the one for Mars. So it tells you everything you need to know. Before you read a list of significations for Mars, you will probably need several content warnings.
Joe G. 34:43
But it's so true.
Tristan Paylor 34:45
It's like the whole it's the rogues gallery of all the darkest stuff that people can do to each other people can experience. You know, it's, it's, well, I was thinking about what you were saying earlier. Kyle, what So how you know, Mars is very useful if it is moderated like it's a planet that really needs to be moderated. It's, you know, it's very useful within a specific context in clearly defined limits, you know, which probably explains why it's exalted in Capricorn. Yeah, right. And I was thinking about, was watching avatar, The Last Airbender, watching for the first time. And I just got to the part where the main characters is studying under the firebending master. So like someone who has mastered the element of fire, and he's having this conversation with him about how, like, to him being a firebender is a burden. Like, it's kind of a curse, because, you know, people who have mastery over the other elements, they have these abilities to heal, like water has the ability to heal and nurture life, but fire destroys. And so if you have power over fire, you're constantly reining yourself in, you're constantly like, the first sort of less actual, direct firebending lesson he gives is actually not to create fire or to light something on fire, it is to hold a leaf that has, you know, there's, there's a tiny little spark in the middle, and the fire is slowly slowly eating the leaf. And he's asking the main character to control the spread of the fire to actually contain it to prevent it from consuming the entire leave. And like that is, you know, the sort of secret to mastery over the element of fire is not being able to just sort of bend it to your will and use it for whatever you want. It's actually being able to prevent it from getting out of hand. It's very much like the energy of Mars to me is it's very, very useful and very necessary, but it's very easy for it to just turn into an absolutely destructive force.
Kyle Pierce 36:55
Yeah, actually, it's to use another show analogy. Now, I already mentioned I mentioned the Witcher before, but having finished season two comes to mind is that in The Witcher, they have the the majors, and the I think the sorceress is in the show when the sources sorceresses are learning, you know, to do magic and stuff. They refer to it as chaos. You know, the magic comes from chaos. And literally, everything that they do has to it feeds on on something else on life. So like the whole the flower in their hand, and they'll do a little zap make some fire or something and the flower wilts. But the whole deal to make to be a good sorceress, you have to control the chaos. You can't just like go berserk, and blow all your chaos, you'll die. And you'll kill everybody else, too. You have to channel it. And like the whole their whole schooling is about channeling the chaos. And I think that Mars, if any planet, certainly of the traditional planets is the planet that signifies chaos. I would
Joe G. 38:11
agree with Nick time. Feel like if we were to compare it to like outer planets, Uranus is probably like a baby of mercury. Yeah.
Kyle Pierce 38:19
I mean, you know, debatable. Maybe Uranus could be a bit more chaos, because it doesn't necessarily have a goal in mind, depending on how you're looking at Uranus, while Mars. Mars does have a goal, it's, it is goal oriented, just maybe distinguishes it from Saturn, which is, it's more of a fuck that. I don't want to do that. You know, it's more about like, not wanting things. While Mars is like, I want this, and I don't really care. What happens to you, in the process of me getting it.
Joe G. 38:57
It's the competition aspect of it all. Like, I think like, the whole mission of Mars is like victory. And I think that's why like, Jupiter and Mars are like in the table of friendships and enmities are, are said to be friends because with Jupiter's wisdom, then the competitiveness of Mars can be like a friendly thing. It's like, we we are about to beat the crap out of each other. But we know it's just the game. Sort of, you know, like, we don't actually hate each other. We're just
Kyle Pierce 39:31
actually a, like, kind of referring sector a little bit. Because, you know, we put Mars in the nighttime sect, mainly because the nighttime cools Mars off makes it a little more manageable. Other factors aside, but like in Vedic Astrology, the sun Jupiter and Mars are all buds. They're all friends. Well, you know, Venus, Saturn and mercury are buddies, but If there is something to Mars and Jupiter and the sun like they are, there's some vibe there. Their whole I think one of the big distinctions, unlike the Vedic realm of thought is that they're, they're all more hierarchical.
Tristan Paylor 40:17
Yeah, they're about having power having command authority over others. Yeah, well, and I think one of the key things that distinguishes the mullah fix is that they are separating the they make things distinct, where the benefics stabilize and harmonize and bring things together the malefics tear things apart, separate them put a wedge between them. And yes, part of having authority is kind of separating yourself from other people and you being distinct from other people. But it's also you know, one of the things that is potentially useful about the malefics is that you know, even if, if a system is beyond repair, the benefics will keep working to try to fix it to try to smooth things over. And there there are moments where you need you know, like the, the tarot card, the tower, there are moments where you need the tower. And Mars is very, very important when something is beyond hope and just needs to be torn down and destroyed and you need to just scorched earth start over you need the energy of Mars or you'll just keep persisting and you know, perhaps an unjust system that you're convinced well there's some way that we can patch this up and really, there's it's it's not going to be patched up. It's time to bring out the dynamite
Joe G. 41:42
Yeah, right. And I think this was something that we said the first time they were trained to record this but I think like with Mars is also a symbol of pain. It's also a bad thing that let you know like this is not the don't do this. Like it's very loud and clear. Like this hurts. won't do it again.
Tristan Paylor 42:05
Yeah, I remember you talking about that because that had just come up in my my textbook to was talking about how important pain is and there was like a case study of a woman who's like, there's something going on with her nervous system, she literally can't feel pain and she's like, you know, broken her leg and just spent days walking on it and making it worse because she has no idea. You do a lot of damage to yourself with your pain. So it's actually like an ally even though it's unpleasant.
Kyle Pierce 42:32
Yeah, I would say that Mars, Mars will definitely tell you a lot about your your relationship to pain. It signifies pain, it signifies your ability to inflict pain, it signifies your out your ability to like say no fuck that. I don't want I don't want this this hurts. This is bad. No, well, we'll take out a good Mars you might submit to things that are painful, but maybe not have the, the wherewithal to, to stop it from happening to separate yourself from the situation.
Joe G. 43:04
Right? I think on a positive note, too. I think one of the things that Mars is really good at his just loyalty as a, like loyalty for a cause like Mars. When once Mars believes in a thing and will fight Yeah. Oh, yeah. For like a very noble Hmm,
Kyle Pierce 43:24
it's that and I mean, speaking of pain, it's what you will endure pain for,
Joe G. 43:28
you know, right. I
Kyle Pierce 43:29
mean, you always you gotta think the soldier and there's so many different types of soldiers. There's bad ones, there's good ones, it kind of depends on like, how you're purchasing the soldier what kind of training the soldier has, what the soldiers fighting for. And if it's fighting for itself, you know, that soldier will do anything, you know, but if it has a code and it has reasons for fighting other than just its own nature, that's where you bring out like the real, the noble qualities of Mars.
Joe G. 44:02
And even just like hunting, the benefits are all about having the luxurious feasts, but Mars is the guy who hunts it all down and picks it all up because cooks are Mars
Tristan Paylor 44:16
is Mars territory. Very first place it's a very pointy hot
Joe G. 44:21
I've worked on many man, Jesus Christ.
Kyle Pierce 44:28
It's definitely a place where like the planets like blend together though.
Joe G. 44:32
Yeah, it is really interesting. Definitely. I think Mars though rains in the kitchen. You're playing with fire knives. You're cutting things up. You're burning them up. Mars Mars is a domain we one of
Kyle Pierce 44:51
my first jobs was as a busser. And I remember the kitchen, people were just do I got me all the time. They were always telling me, you know, to do this or do that, and they were they would mess with me all the time too. They like to play jokes. Not so nice. Joke's on people. I know it is.
Tristan Paylor 45:13
A warzone. Absolutely. And I worked in food service for most of my working life. And that's where all the Mars in my chart really shows up is. It's a harsh, harsh environment. We all have Mars. Yeah. That's very true. And it's like, you know, Venus contrasting Mars and Venus again, Venus makes things nice. Venus is like pleasant conversation. Soft words. You saying things tactfully? You know, like, doing Yeah, like doing the the bad news sandwich where you know, if you have something potentially challenging to tell somebody you sandwich it between some nice things with some compliments, you know, so it goes down easier. Mars is about cussing harsh language, crude, dirty jokes. crassness, like, unfiltered, raw kind of stuff going on, and also just like impatience, like, there's no time. My favorite.
Kyle Pierce 46:08
I get that with Mars all the time.
Tristan Paylor 46:10
Yeah. It's like things happening quickly, right? So it's like when there's no time, you don't really have time to. It takes extra time and energy to say things tactfully. If you're working in a kitchen and it's busy, and there's a lineup at the door and you know, tables changing all over the place. It's like, you need something done. Now you don't have time to go, please. And thank you and all that was really nice that you didn't have to get that done now. I need this. I need this. It's yeah, very abrupt.
Joe G. 46:41
Right. One of the things that doesn't get talked about much about Mars is cleanliness to cleanliness is also a very commercial thing. You're killing bacteria. You're sanitizing everything, especially like surgeons, if you're going into a surgery, you have to make sure all the tools are pristine and sterilized. And I don't think any other planet will do that. Because if we think about like, Venus, Venus instigates procreation and if we're adding that to bacteria, bacteria is just going to proliferate. Same thing with Jupiter. I think it's Saturn and Mars, the guys through maybe more so Mars than Saturn, who kind of just like, like, now, you?
Tristan Paylor 47:27
You got it? I was thinking about?
Kyle Pierce 47:29
Yeah, mercury, I think is supposed to be the planet will be actually obsessed with cleanliness. And actually, no, I know a Gemini rising with Mercury in Gemini. And there's definitely a fixation on cleanliness and organization folding. Like, you know, like, Mars will like throw clothes in a duffel bag and Mercury would like fold them up all nicely.
Joe G. 47:55
Well, but there's a different thing between cleanliness and organization. I don't think a Mars is necessarily oriented. But like if you're going to clean a bathroom, I think that's a Marshall.
Tristan Paylor 48:08
The toilet doing the nasty work.
Kyle Pierce 48:10
Mars wants things to be efficient. Yeah. streamlined, right, practical and be able to move forward. So yeah, actually, I mean, yeah, I would think like military dress even, you know, like, but they're just like decider systems. Yeah, you keep your your stuff tight. Because you don't want to be looking for your, you know, your grenades when the enemy comes, right,
Joe G. 48:33
which is also interesting, though, because one of the things that I to this day don't understand. And I see it all the time and then sharing ancient texts, especially with Aries is the association between Mars and fine clothing. That's always the thing that I see all the time. I never understand why they wouldn't be together. I assumed
Tristan Paylor 48:51
it was the military Association like being in uniform. Yeah. Because there's like it there's a lot I mean, the more I learn astrology, the more Venus and Mars really blend together for me it's like are there really two sides of the same coin, like with the cleanliness piece I because Venus is associated with cleanliness and valance and in some of the medieval texts explicitly lists cleanliness as a signification for Venus. And you know, a lot of like, dirty work gets associated with Mars blacksmithing you know, animal husbandry, Saturn two gets, you know, literally as the soil. You know, like, you think the genetic planet is like things being in a nice, pristine state. But when I'm actually cleaning stuff, which I do a lot because I did housekeeping for a while. It's like, like you were saying Joji, like cleaning products are harsh, poisonous chemicals. You're using scouring like steel wall and scouring sponges. And like you're doing unpleasant work, you're you're in the muck when you're cleaning. So it's like there's a A weird relationship there where it's like the things you use to clean are all like sharp or harsh or abrasive or burning. Yeah. And when you're doing it, you're getting all the gross Ness. But the outcome seems Venusian where it's like, oh, you know, you walk into someone's house. You don't see all the cleaning that they did for you got there. You just see like, oh, the counters are so shiny and like freshly vacuumed. Yeah. Yeah,
Kyle Pierce 50:28
I think Mercury likes to stay clean too much to actually do the deep cleaning. You need Mars for like, yeah, the real cleaning, right?
Joe G. 50:34
I think Mercury cleanliness would be like the appearance of cleanliness. Like you're, you make sure everything looks like it's in the right place. But there's definitely certain things is the trickster. Just
Kyle Pierce 50:52
kind of speaking to Tristan, that was a really good point about, you know, finding that weird kind of that Mars, Venus, like other sides of the same coin, like you think about some of the words we use for and I don't like to overly lean on, like the masculine feminine distinction between Mars and Venus, but it does show up and it's useful sometimes in that, like, you know, I remember actually being a kid and my grandma said, Wow, you look sharp today. Didn't know what that meant. It's like sharp. Like I look sharp, sharp, like a knife. Like, I didn't make sense to me. But sharp is like a word that we use clean cut. You know, we use a lot of like, spicy dicey. Particularly, I guess, when we're talking about men, or like, masculine attractiveness. Like things cut. Nice, like neat, like straight lines and straight lines, neat angles, sharp. But it's kind of simplified, like not overly adorned, per se. You know, we kind of traditionally think like a black suit, with clean cut hair. You know, Mars and Capricorn. Think we kind of eyebrows you want you want right? Cut off right here. You want them nice and neat. Sharp. There's a Mars definitely. I mean, it's really hard when you start really thinking about the nature of just sex and sexuality in general. But even just like things were attracted to and drawn to, to separate Mars from that, like Mars is very deep in that.
Joe G. 52:24
Right, I think it's a I can't remember if it's actually the pika tricks. But there is, it could be a different, like astrological magic book. But one thing that they say is that Mars is every passion in the moment, but it's felt not anything before, not anything after it's just that one moment of like, extreme heat and drive, you know,
Tristan Paylor 52:46
and love that. Well, the important signification of Mars is the taboo. I think one of my favorite ways of referring to this comes from Abu Mushara, who writes that Mars's regarding forbidden things as permissible. I love that one. And so that's a good one. Also, every matter occurring suddenly is another one that comes from his list that I just like, I love that. That's
Kyle Pierce 53:15
all the time. Mars delivers back to me so often,
Tristan Paylor 53:20
but like the the taboo nature, especially in connection to sexuality, like Mars is one of the most as, as a queer person. Mars is one of the planets that is most important. To me. It's in my seventh house. And you know, Maurice is separating and divisive and controversial and taboo. And my, you know, ability to form social connections was, like I was, I was cut off from people because I was outed as queer in a very, very young age, like when I was 13. So it's like, there's a whole, you know, Mars is associated with the Monstress. And what we reject and you know, what we consider evil and, you know, like, you picture Mars as being sort of demonic with horns and the tail and everything. And it's like, I'm the kind of person who like really kind of likes reclaiming that imagery a little bit where I'm like, Yeah, I identify with that taboo stuff like I've been, there are people who are unfairly on the receiving end of, of social taboos that just shouldn't exist, because they don't make sense. And I think you can find a bit of Mars in there as well.
Kyle Pierce 54:31
Yeah. And it's like, if you didn't have Mars, you wouldn't be able to sever away from those really bullshit, social taboos. You know, we're unnecessarily limiting restricting. Yeah, you really need Mars to have the ability to sever yourself or I mean, sometimes we're involuntarily severed from groups or communities, but to you know, Be willing to maintain, to have a sense of like individual desire and will and purpose, you know, to be willing to pursue your personal desires enough to separate from the expectations of your community. You need Mars.
Tristan Paylor 55:17
Yeah, sort of blaze the trail. Yeah.
Kyle Pierce 55:22
And, you know, a lot of people will bury who they really are, underneath the expectations of a lot of people in their community to avoid that suffering and separation. But Mars can give you the courage to, to do that,
Joe G. 55:37
which is a genetic thing. Now that will drive to like a simile, and just like, let's all be together, and we'll all be fine. Like they're suffering that can come out. Oh, yeah, quick thing. That's the thing that we very much need to think about,
Tristan Paylor 55:52
I guess the banana fix will, you know, deny, you know, it's like, I will deny how I really feel or who I really am in order to assimilate and make sure I don't rock the boat and make everybody feel comfortable. And the malefics are willing to make people feel uncomfortable. They're willing to confront people with, you know, the stuff that we sweep under the rug. And I think, you know, we were talking about that, in our signs episode a bit, we're talking about Scorpio that, like, you know, Scorpio is all about the stuff that we sweep under the rug. And Scorpio is the one who asked to go, Hey, look what's under here. Like, at some point, you've got to face this.
Kyle Pierce 56:32
Yeah, it makes you glad to have all them really all the benefits and the malefics. Because they really do you know, you don't want to go to Mars, because you'll never have any relationships with anyone, you know, you don't want to go to Venus, either, because you'll have no sense of individuality or personal will, you know, you won't be another person to even be harmonized with just be like a one with everyone. Which is maybe nice. If you're a board, you know.
Joe G. 57:08
That actually reminds me of like a thought that I just had recently because I'm like, studying cryptocurrency. And it's just like a thing that I'm like, fascinated with now. But like, especially with Bitcoin, it's built into the code for a to fail, and for it to go wrong every now and then, which is for the good health of the whole system. And I was thinking about that. And if like if we're putting yourself in the shoes of like a creator that created everything, like what a great idea to prevent anything from going wrong, you make so things are wrong are part of the plan all along. And that thought just like made me feel really nice about malefics as a whole. It's like, yes, things can go wrong. But that's the that's part
Tristan Paylor 58:00
and eat a healthy ecosystem has predators in it like the mullah fix represented that and I was reading a bit about wolves the other day, and how, like in places where wolves are reintroduced. Wolves help to control the deer population in North America. And there's this one area where wolves were reintroduced, and deer eats young willows. And so without the wolves, there was a lot of damage being done to the population of Willow, which then does damage to the beaver population, because they rely on the wood to build dams. And then it goes on and then the Beavers are like intimately connected to everything else in the ecosystem. And so there's this whole web of problems. But when you have wolves, which are a very Mars animal, at least like the way they sort of exist in our psyche, you know, as the the killers of livestock and sort of creatures that live in the night and are, you know, scary and sharp and pointy and kill things. When you reintroduce the wolves, they not only control the deer population, but they kind of like herd the deer population in such a way that it's not even just that fewer willows are being killed, but that there are whole areas that are like untouched because the deer are kind of being controlled into specific areas. And so then there are these entire areas where the trees can actually flourish. And then the beavers flourish, and then everybody flourishes. So it's like that destructive element within the ecosystem that actually leads back into balance. Yeah, it's it's balance, right?
Kyle Pierce 59:40
Yeah. I love that. It's, I almost feel like we're seeing too many nice things about Mars.
Tristan Paylor 59:46
And they say good things about the effects. The first time we recorded this we were like trashed. I felt so bad. Yeah, solid today. and maybe you know, remind remind everyone wise the greater bonanza.
Kyle Pierce 1:00:05
I know I should we should probably before we moved on with Jupiter say you know maybe some of the harsh realities of Mars as well.
Joe G. 1:00:14
I think we did cover a lot of the harsh realities of it we started pretty like heavy on Mars yeah pretty heavy with all the
Kyle Pierce 1:00:27
Mars you know, stab you Mars is murder Mars, you know, it's all those awful things.
Tristan Paylor 1:00:32
Mars is crime.
Kyle Pierce 1:00:33
It's actually probably some of the worst worst things in life our Mars right but you know I don't need to talk more about Jupiter to bring brings energy in because tying it all together bringing it all together into a cohesive whole is not Yeah, talking too much about Mars, you know. Anyway, Jupiter,
Tristan Paylor 1:01:05
Jupiter.
Kyle Pierce 1:01:07
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Tristan Paylor 1:02:34
So we have another Ben Affleck and I did say greater Ben Affleck but I feel I should clarify that does not mean better or superior than ethic it it refers to you know the length of time it takes Jupiter to get through the Zodiac, it measures a greater cycle of time. Venus measures a shorter cycle of time. And that is one of the interpretive distinctions you can make when you're comparing the two malefics or the two benefics is one will be a little faster and measure shorter periods of time and the other measures longer ones and so you know maybe has a little bit more to do with issues that affect us collectively as opposed to personally or things that occur over longer periods of time. That sort of thing.
Kyle Pierce 1:03:19
Yeah. I really hate to keep doing this. I keep saying Infotech astrology and Vedic Astrology but it's it's interesting. I love getting different perspectives. Yeah. But consider Venus. Just more significant than than Jupiter.
Tristan Paylor 1:03:37
I like that.
Kyle Pierce 1:03:38
I think that has to do with literally, it's the Venus is more feminine. And feminine is benefic
Tristan Paylor 1:03:46
Yeah, I've heard the masculine is malefic.
Kyle Pierce 1:03:49
Just just, you know, I get that makes sense.
Tristan Paylor 1:03:55
Josie your style. You're okay, you're
Joe G. 1:03:58
clean. Yeah, I want the world
Tristan Paylor 1:04:01
to hear your beautiful laughter
Kyle Pierce 1:04:05
It's actually very Jupiter. Yeah, kind of laughter
Tristan Paylor 1:04:07
speaking of the bun FX,
Joe G. 1:04:09
I guess it is hohoho
Tristan Paylor 1:04:13
is up put her as kind of the Santa Claus of the planets. I guess we haven't mentioned sect. Jupiter is of the daytime sect.
Kyle Pierce 1:04:21
Yes, of course rules. Pisces and Sagittarius traditionally.
Joe G. 1:04:28
Oh, and one thing that we did say on the last attempt that I do want to bring back.
Tristan Paylor 1:04:36
Semen off cookie butter is an underrated sex planet.
Kyle Pierce 1:04:41
It definitely is
Joe G. 1:04:43
100 signifying Oh, he's always fucking there is not one single story where Jupiter is not making a kid
Kyle Pierce 1:04:54
that in that is what Jupiter is very good for the especially the beginning of children. And I know we're not talking about beginning means but I always think of just like putting children on people which is very Zeus like where you know Zeus will will put a baby in somebody and dip out, which is not necessarily, you know, fear Jupiter style, but Jupiter is the juice it is the Lord of semen.
Joe G. 1:05:26
But that's the weird thing too, because I think like, Yes, he does bring the child to life and he kind of dips out but he's always like, because he is the king of Olympus. He's always overlooking everything. So he never really like leaves he's out. He might not be there present in person, which is also a very ethereal sort of joopa terian quality. Yeah, but he's always there kind of like, overlooking things and making sure things go right in some way, shape or form. He might send an eagle, just to like, I don't know, drop a seed that grows into a ladder and takes you out of a hole. I don't know.
Tristan Paylor 1:06:07
I think I think we're a little unfair to Jupiter. Sometimes, though, when we we fall into the trap of mythic literalism and forget that, like you're gonna miss are not meant to be taken literally. And what does it mean for the king of the gods, to have so many children, the king of the gods is the storm god, the god of rain, the one who brings life to the earth who makes the crops grow. You want you know, in in an ancient society, it's like you want lots of children, you want lots of crops, you want lots of food, and so that's what Jupiter represents. And so that, you know, being very prolific in the tails is a way of saying that like Zeus is the power that you know, unites with the earth and brings life into existence and lots and lots and lots of life just teeming with life.
Kyle Pierce 1:06:55
Yeah, Jupiter is prolific, and it multiplies things like a bit gross. Yeah. expands. Yeah, those are kind of like the key phrases, really for Jupiter growth and expansion.
Joe G. 1:07:10
I like that you mentioned multiply, because I think that like going back to Venus, that might be like a good way to think about it. Like Venus adds budget or multiple
Kyle Pierce 1:07:18
leave a little meme about it that I didn't post yet, because I keep posting on social media. But yes, yeah, it's awful. I think Jupiter multiplies. Venus adds. Saturn subtracts. Mars divides your variables, you know, and mercury. Does the math.
Tristan Paylor 1:07:37
Mercury does the math. I love. That's great. Yeah.
Joe G. 1:07:43
Yeah. Amen. And honestly, like, I love these sort of, like really obscure correspondences, because they get you to think about the planetary archetype. And it's such a different, I guess, angle, like I'm currently working on an article about. It's crazy. I'm super synthesizer nerd. And one thing that I realized is that the four primary wave shapes that we use to make sound synthesis are very much congruent with the aspects and how we can use those and even like, it's actually crazy, because even looking at the spectral shape that they make, like the, the, I guess the saw wave would be the opposition in that case. Of course, that's why it's it's a it's super dense when we look at the spectrum and that would be of course, Saturn. And then the, the sine sine wave, which would be Venus is like super smooth and everything just even the most dissonant note will sound fine with it. It's, it's really crazy, but it's a bit of a side note.
Tristan Paylor 1:08:57
I love that. Yeah,
Kyle Pierce 1:08:58
fun. We're gonna have to do like a music themed episode. Actually. Yes. We're getting off track though. Jupiter,
Joe G. 1:09:05
right? Well, we'll talk Jupiter, Jupiter, the Lord of trines
Tristan Paylor 1:09:12
triangles.
Kyle Pierce 1:09:14
That is, yeah, triangles. That's is that the sine wave.
Joe G. 1:09:18
Sine Wave is the wave wave wave triangle and then that triangular one is done. Next closest, you add a little bit of tension there. Now every note will sound completely perfect. But it's still it's still very much similar. It's interesting because it has a little bit of that quality from from the saw wave which is like we're talking about like Saturnian, which is kind of like, bright and sharp in some ways, but it's still like very much smooth sounding and you can get around with like working with a lot of like dense harmonies. Now like them Olympic ones not so much because they, they promote dissonance.
Kyle Pierce 1:10:05
We can get so deep into this, but I have to be
Joe G. 1:10:09
military all
Kyle Pierce 1:10:11
the while it's not perfect, but you think about in terms of like, intervals like squares like a minor third changed, like minor thirds, but trying is a major third, you know, that fits really well. And then like a whole,
Joe G. 1:10:28
you have to sit and talk for sure. I have a whole like modal model using deck ends back to Jupiter, Jupiter, Jupiter,
Kyle Pierce 1:10:44
Jupiter. Maybe it's just that Jupiter brings out the joy, you know that say?
Tristan Paylor 1:10:50
We're just so happy, whatever you're loving. We just want to talk to our passions. Yes. I think one of my favorite textual significations of Jupiter comes from the anthology of various Valens where he lists release from bonds is that, uh, yeah, I always think of Jupiter as freedom and justice and the one who sets things or people free, the one who sort of like unties or loosens situations, you know, like Saturn can be kinda like, you know, being trapped in a prison or, or being exiled. And Jupiter is like, freeing the captive and reuniting the exile with their people. And I think also about, like, Jupiter is very, it's a very political planet, like, it's all about authority and government and law and justice and sort of like, at its best, it's sort of like, you know, how does like a well functioning government like one that actually works for its people and, and that sort of thing, like, just leadership is a very joopa terian quality?
Kyle Pierce 1:12:05
Yeah, I mean, the Jupiter definitely is expansive in its thinking, compared to Venus, it's very, it is social in the sense of it's looking often how to, like make things better for larger groups of people. Also, in terms of relationships, Jupiter is more likely to bring you bring you into compatible groups of people, you know, as opposed to like a one on one relationship. Venus, like compatible individuals like Jupiter is more of a communal kind of vibe. Right? It's an kind of uniting people under an ideal, a common set of beliefs. And even just the formation of belief systems, very Jupiter. While Saturn believes in nothing, and it was only that everybody will die. That is the only thing Saturday knows for sure.
Joe G. 1:13:07
But usually, like people pleasing is the thing that people usually ascribe to Venus. But I think Venus is more so like a person pleasing. Yeah, Jupiter is people pleasing, like Jupiter is trying to please, everybody. Everybody gets what they want. Yeah. Whether it's good or bad. If Jupiter is just getting it, it doesn't really care. Yeah. And I think that that's sometimes where we like you're saying like sometimes a Venus is said to be more benefic than Jupiter. Maybe because of that reason because Venus sense to harmonize. But Jupiter doesn't care. It just wants to make people feel good, and to win whatever it is that they want. So it's that boundless expansion that sometimes can go south.
Kyle Pierce 1:13:54
i This is something that comes from you that I always think about now is the and I'll never get your analogy. Exactly right. But it is idea that you know, Jupiter wants to and wants to expand things and it wants to like maybe bring as many people under its umbrella as possible. And there is a point of kind of maximum expanse that Jupiter, probably ideally Amin is very good at is ideally very good at you know, has like its retrograde cycle, which is actually very even and smooth. Where it might consolidate its gains gains a bit. But it's like maybe the kind of feeling of Jupiter's that, like, the bigger you bring, the bigger the umbrella gets, you know, the more you bring in, and then the cracks can start to form in the huge community that you you build, you know, like the you can't really unite and harmonize. Such a huge group. We just cookie right. Crumbling in a sense. I think of dinosaurs actually insects used to be really, really huge. As in like prehistoric times, because there's so much oxygen in the atmosphere. And they can do that because the surface area of law, now they have to be really tiny because they can't absorb enough oxygen once they get past a certain size, right? Because that's where you know the Saturn Jupiter. If you're looking at pairs, they're kind of like the Mars Venus pair, you know, the other. The other end of that are, you know, they you kind of need Saturn to tell Jupiter to stop sometimes.
Joe G. 1:15:30
Yeah, like, you've gone too far. But
Kyle Pierce 1:15:36
if you go too far, it'll, it'll all crumble.
Tristan Paylor 1:15:38
I think it's interesting, though, that like Jupiter is a benefit. And so is associated with moderation as opposed to extremes. And I think, in modern times, we tend to think of Jupiter is just like everything bigger and like going to the farthest extreme, whereas like, especially, you know, looking in, in Renaissance texts, Jupiter is associated with all of those virtues of temperance and modesty and prudence and variety, you know, there's this sort of varieties
Kyle Pierce 1:16:08
of surprising one with Jupiter. Yes, it's
Tristan Paylor 1:16:11
like Jupiter is associated with religion and priesthood and religious and spiritual values. And, of course, you know, in a Christian culture, what are those? Things like temperance, right, so those become like joopa terian virtues because Jupiter represents virtuous behavior and virtuous living? So I think like, yeah, it's, there's, I can see, both
Kyle Pierce 1:16:36
descriptions are pretty puritanical. It can,
Tristan Paylor 1:16:38
yeah, well, they can get a little, I think, you know, sort of the dark side of Jupiter with the religiosity as being like to certain of what it believes, and the you know, like, what you were saying, of trying to unite everybody under one banner, you know, is, is way that religion can become extreme, where, you know, you're trying to, it becomes authoritarian because you're trying to unite everyone. And so if there's any dissent than that threatens the unity of the group. And so you need everyone to be obeying the same rules. And so it becomes kind of authoritarian and strict and can be a little preachy, like being too certain, you know, it's a it comes from, you know, Jupiter is kind of our reaction to the chaos of the world that we live in. You know, we want things to be ordered, we want things to make sense. And we want to know that we have the right answers, like most situations in life are morally ambiguous. And Jupiter is the response that like, you know, I want to have a sense of right from wrong and know that the decision that I'm making is right and good. But you know, and this, I think, is where you see the contrast between Mercury and Jupiter, where Mercury is very aware that morality is is relative, and that most situations are morally ambiguous, and Jupiter really wants to have the right answer and know that, like, I, the outcome of this action will be good when it's usually more complicated than that.
Kyle Pierce 1:18:07
Yeah.
Joe G. 1:18:09
Right. I like how you brought the cultural context, like speaking about renaissance and how like, Christianity was such a big thing. And all these positive qualities ascribed to Jupiter are very much like Christian qualities. Because I think that might be a reason why, in the society that we live in today, we get to see a little bit more of like the, I guess, the challenging or the darker sides of Jupiter, because these days like with late stage capitalism, like Morris so all the good things it's just more more more more and more we
Tristan Paylor 1:18:39
have moderated Jupiter's normally are like stabilizing, you know, Jupiter's is supposed to be like temperance being, like, take the Balanced View, you know, don't, don't go to two extremes and trying to reach your goals. And, you know, think of it being sort of like the middle path, like, you know, you don't, you don't need to go to these extremes of self mortification for enlightenment or whatever, like, actually, like, you know, have a good balance between all the areas of your life, but that's not something that our culture really values and Jupiter is this symbol of everything that we value as a culture and our values right now are actually pretty unmoderated and like you're saying just more and more and more just like endless consumption, endless growth unchecked, you know, living at a balance with nature, feeling like our resources are never gonna run out kind of thing.
Kyle Pierce 1:19:32
They're like excellent points. And I'm thinking about, you know, with Jupiter and that's kind of one of its core significations of wisdom. And wisdom is something that you gain over long periods of time, often through trial and error. You know, in Jupiter you thinking like Sagittarius like it's very adventurous. Sort of blind optimism of Jupiter will lead you into new situations that you know, may or may not reap the benefit. It's that you expect, but Jupiter is also kind of that bounce back, you know that like you that your ability to to take hits to some degree like emotional ideological hits. Because Jupiter like the idealism the Jupiter is very hard to maintain it doesn't stand up well in the world, really, when you get to the big space intellectual ideological sphere, that stuff doesn't stand up when it gets too hard, you know, he gets to Saturday, like where it's trying to have a hard show of ideology. I think that the wisdom of Jupiter, which, you know, has such a long cycle compared to like Venus, like 12 years. Ultimately, I think Jupiter gets to like a point of like, accepting the sort of contradictions inherent in people, I don't know, there's like, when I think of the, like the releasing from bonds of Jupiter that there's like, a letting people off the hook to Mercy. There's like, yeah, there's like an acceptance of Jupiter of like, well, yeah, that's kind of how people are, you know, you're not going to get the sort of perfection. But like, you know, Jupiter can look at the whole picture and sort of see the beauty in the balance of all of it, the sort of, I don't know, it's like, you need Jupiter to have the capacity to, like, accept, accept things in their sort of imperfect imperfection.
Joe G. 1:21:25
Because that really makes me think about Jupiter being exalted in cancer, and even like, the, like what you said, like just letting things slide. It's just that like, Oh, we're all family, it's all good. Like, that guy did something, but he's family is fun. And now, I think that very much as a joopa, terian, sort of vibe.
Kyle Pierce 1:21:46
Yeah, it's, you know, you picking your battles to, like, Jupiter gives you the wisdom, the wisdom do that Mars will want to fight every battle, you know, Saturn will want to nail it, nail you to the wall, accountability wise, like you are not off the hook for this ever, you know, but that doesn't work, right? That pure, you know, the pure, monolithic, doesn't work pure, but if it doesn't work, Jupiter ultimately is going to have to, like find a way to stabilize and balance all those things, and create a container for it, or accept, you know, the, the contradictions within that container as kind of being part of the whole you know, and I think that's where you can find the happiness and peace of Jupiter is like the, in the forgiveness of forgiving people, not you know, holding every single person to account seeking justice for every single slight bit or can help you let go when you need to, you know,
Joe G. 1:22:41
when I think I have Jupiter, it reminds me of those, I don't know if they still exist, but at some point, like all over the internet, you got like, I don't know, some country, they had, I think it was like luxury, like jail cells, where people were going to jail. But then they had like libraries where they could study, they had cable TV, like really good food and all of that. And I'm like, this is very much a Jupiter justice system. Like your, you fail the system, you go to a jail to like really just like, rehabilitate yourself, feel good, get good food, experience all the fine things in life. So you know that, like, there are good things in life. And you're you don't have to just like, because I'm a huge believer that crime comes from, like the sense of like, you have to commit that crime in order to survive. Yeah, I think at the end of the day, we're all just trying to survive. And I think Jupiter through that approach can show people that you don't have to just fight for survive like for you. You're out here like there is abundance there is such thing as an abundance and you just have to like you just have to know how to look for it in the right place. And have the right opportunity sort of fun to
Kyle Pierce 1:23:54
give people Yeah, avenues to get back into society. Yeah,
Tristan Paylor 1:23:58
rehabilitation to punishment, Jupiter's not gonna punish you for your infractions. Jupiter's gonna sit down and go. Okay, how do we fix this? You know, like, Yeah, you did something wrong. But it's not using punishment as a as a way of modifying somebody's behavior, but actually like, sitting down with them and figuring out like, Okay, where did things go wrong? And how can we make things right?
Kyle Pierce 1:24:23
Yeah. And you think about, its opposite, maybe some degree, Saturn is sort of people being outcast, and put on the bottom rungs of society. And our alienation just creates more, like you said, Jegede, like the when you have to commit crime just to survive. That's what feeds the cycle. And so when you keep people out of the out of the outside of the wall, in a sense, you don't you don't give them any other choices. And I think, Jupiter really it's when you think about it, Something I heard recently, like Saturn sees the end of everything in Jupiter sees the beginning. Jupiter sees the potential, you know, Jupiter sees the possibility sees what's possible and sees opportunity.
Joe G. 1:25:17
Choices. I like how you put choices like having all those choices, you have all these things that you can choose from.
Kyle Pierce 1:25:25
Yeah, when you only have the choice between starving to death or stealing in the old lady next door, like you're probably gonna pick stealing from the old lady next door, right?
Tristan Paylor 1:25:35
That Jupiter is the door that, you know, opens you up to other possibilities, like, Hey, here's, here's a person, it's I think Jupiter, you know, in a birth chart can often show us where we find allies, benefactors, teachers, people in positions of authority who help us you know, maybe there's a local program that gives you like an opportunity. You know, there's a community garden that opens up and you know, they're just like, another way for you to get what you need to survive. Jupiter represents those doors opening and those people who like give you a hand up. Yeah.
Joe G. 1:26:11
And that's interesting too, because like, those are also like, like, there's a very fine line of where Saturn also gets into that. It's because I think that like Saturn, if you're trying to do Saturn remediation, you'll do charity work for like the poor, or you'll do like for the elderly and all these things. So I think that, like there, they very much are like two sides of the same coin of like justice and law. Like, yes, you some crimes do need to be punished to some degree, but not every crime. Yeah. And I think that like Jupiter and Saturn really bring that sort of balance of like, what is the ultimate sort of fairness, like Saturn comes with the cells. But then Jupiter comes with the keys at the right time. When you're, now you're rehabilitated, now you're fine. So go and be free sort of. Yeah, I like that.
Tristan Paylor 1:27:04
I think there's certain qualities of both of the benefits that are not strictly rational as well. I think there's a bit of like, in order to survive, we can't be totally like, we can't be like Vulcans all the time. You know, we're Venus represents love and meaning. And, you know, Jupiter represents things like hope and faith and optimism, which are often like, you know, sometimes we have to hope in the face of despair. And that's a really hard job because it's not perfectly rational to hope in the face of despair. Well, that's Jupiter's job. And I think that's a tough job. I really I was like, really feeling Jupiter. I like I have set of I do a little bit of like devotional work with the planets, and I have my son of planetary candles and sit on my altar and I was sitting with Jupiter, just around the time he moved into Pisces. And I was just kind of feeling the weight of like, all this time spent in Capricorn and aquarius, all through this pandemic. And like the kind of work that I felt that Jupiter was doing during that time was preventing us from falling as a as a collective into total despair, right? Like this. These are dark times and it would be very easy to feel hopeless it's very easy to lose your sense of faith in humanity and your sense that there's any goodness in humanity that there's any future for us and it sort of like Jupiter is you know, stuck in these Saturnian signs kind of like doing that hard boots on the ground work of keeping that spark of hope alive.
Kyle Pierce 1:28:47
That's really amazing point actually. See think like Venus will do more maybe in like the tangible in the touchable feelable seeable things will make you know a situation or moment better you know by adorning it in some way making it pretty making it smell good making it taste good making it feel good. Having friends there in Jupiter has some of those qualities too but like what you were saying is Jupiter really has to deliver on has to give us hope and faith where it's not visible where it's not even obvious or even rational really has to like keep the light on through the dark. That is that can be a hard sell.
Joe G. 1:29:36
But I do really like that you guys brought up hope because sometimes you also see hope as like a Saturnian keyword. Card even like the start card in the tarot it's Aquarius, which is the card of hope and Aquarius is the sign of Saturn. And I think for me, it's always that Like hope is never a guarantee that things will turn out. Okay. And I think that hope was Jupiter's that faith and that ultimate just like knowing that things will turn out, okay, but then hope with Saturn is that you don't know if there will be okay. And you only need hope. Because in that moment, that's all you have. It's that like, ultimate scar city, there's nothing left for you to have other than hope. And it's interesting how, like, both of those planets show that same sort of really, like, yeah, that spectrum,
Kyle Pierce 1:30:36
sometimes, like a really neat way. I know, it can be a great thing to have hope and even when, like when the outcome might just be bad, you know, there may not actually be any hope but but like to carry on through the situation to see it forward to the end, you gotta have some sort of hope that like there's a possible outcome and even if the out even if if the hope was false, that was proved to be bullshit kept you going through and you may have done you know, very good things through that that process or you know, it just made it livable, made the situation livable. For however long it lasted, you know,
Tristan Paylor 1:31:16
think Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl that classic is very good meditation on this sort of discussion of Jupiter and Saturn and, you know, being able to find hope and meaning like sources of meaning and really hopeless dark places.
Kyle Pierce 1:31:33
Yeah, I have that audio book and I have I need to finish it. Yeah, it's really good.
Tristan Paylor 1:31:38
It's a tough read, but a very important one.
Joe G. 1:31:40
I think like, one of the good ways to think about your tuition that sense of like being at the right place at the right time. It's also very much joopa terian just like Oh, I did nothing to deserve this and yet yeah, all these things are just here. Yeah, wonderful day. It's rice.
Tristan Paylor 1:32:02
The experience of grace free a free gifts you didn't have to work for Saturn doesn't give you anything you don't work for Jupiter's just like you just happen to be here. And I just happen to be walking by
Kyle Pierce 1:32:15
like to think of your seagulls Mr. Bean movies. You know, Mr. Bean is
Tristan Paylor 1:32:20
how I watched a lot of Mr. Bean drone. Yeah.
Kyle Pierce 1:32:23
Oh, yeah. I like to think of Jupiter with Mr. Bean. And that, like, he's always, you know, walking into situations that like he should be getting horrifically injured. But something is always there to like, save him. Or like, he just bounces lands in a certain way where he's just fine just keeps going. And he's kind of oblivious to that it's all happening. But he's just like bumbling through life. It's like Jupiter has this like shield around Mr. Bean.
Tristan Paylor 1:32:48
That's a really good illustration. I think it's, it's, you know, one of those things that does occasionally make very joopa terian personalities grading where like, a friend of mine
Kyle Pierce 1:33:02
actually works out.
Tristan Paylor 1:33:06
And they Yeah, they're just oblivious to anything. It's just like this for everybody. Yeah, right. Yeah, I have a friend who made a really fun d&d character for a campaign we were doing recently. And this character is like incredibly lucky. And also incredibly arrogant, like very confident, like charming, but very overconfident because he believes that it's his talents that results in all of these great opportunities and like things that could go wrong don't go wrong is because I'm so smart. Like I'm just so great, but it's actually really lucky.
Kyle Pierce 1:33:50
And that that is absolutely a thing that I maybe struggled with with astrology early on, that some people just seem just kind of lucky. That doesn't count really any merit
Joe G. 1:34:04
astrological privileges a thing astrological
Kyle Pierce 1:34:07
Jupiter, they would look to Jupiter. If I met somebody who had that going on, I would be looking at Jupiter in their chart.
Tristan Paylor 1:34:17
Well, yeah, it can be there are lots of symbols in astrology that do make a great meditation on on privilege like dignified planets. Planets. Yeah, fix up in your business. Those are like, those are opportunities to kind of sit back and think like, what are the things that I just don't realize are privileges because like they've just always sort of been around me and come naturally to me, you don't have to think about them, you know? Yeah.
Kyle Pierce 1:34:44
potential scenario. Astrology hotline is at war, at war on answered astrology questions. We have the weapons, we have the training, but to achieve ultimate victory, we need your help. I want you to take out your phone To open up Apple podcasts, subscribe to astrology hotline. crush all five stars and rain down a righteous review with furious satisfaction. I want you to open up Spotify. Subscribe to astrology hotline and launch one high speed film of flaming death at that five star rating and I want you to find the gnarliest most insidious astrology question you can find email it to astrology hotline pod@gmail.com So we have slaughtered mercilessly on the show together we can conquer astrology one question at a time Yeah, then there is you know the opposite end of that it's the your astrological what card blights the areas where things don't seem to go so well or so smoothly or so quickly. You know, what are their sort of obstacles and walls and obstructions around around those areas of life you know we often look to probably a slightly more often my favorite one of my favorite planets. I love all the planets there so wonderful. Saturn
Joe G. 1:36:19
Saturn, yes king of gays.
Kyle Pierce 1:36:25
It it shows up
Tristan Paylor 1:36:32
testament to this true. Angular. Yeah.
Kyle Pierce 1:36:41
And it does sort of mean it makes sense when you think about Saturn is sort of the the archetypal challenge or the son in a sense. That sort of challenging the norm, you know, it's, it's standing in a place of being critical of the norm, but it's also its nature because it is, you know, kind of cast out of society, it's different is to be you know, when you when you exclude somebody from something, they they become different, you know, and vice versa, like, I don't know, it's a different pneus it's not
Joe G. 1:37:15
being your skein Yeah, because Saturn would be straight.
Kyle Pierce 1:37:25
exactly true. That is, that is exactly it. That's it.
Tristan Paylor 1:37:29
You the Sun is your heteronormative says norm. patriarchal hero, you know the sun the sun is the Lion King, you know as the same but Saturn is the queer coded villain Saternus scar Saturn is Jafar Loki who is literally played by someone with sun in Aquarius, like, always the queer coded villain who stands you know, like you look at Thor and Loki, Thor is the solar hero. He's depicted in like, warm gold and red tones and the God of lightning and thunder. And you know, it's always like the red cape and everything is bright, and he's blonde. And then, you know, you have the queer coated hero who's sort of like hidden in the shadows. And that is your that is your Saturn character. Love that.
Kyle Pierce 1:38:25
I don't know, I guess there are, you know, so many ways, I guess that Saturn can play out. So lots of ways to be to not fit in, right. Many, many ways, more ways than there are to fit in really,
Joe G. 1:38:37
right. Like backtracking a bit to what we're talking about when we're talking about Jupiter. And like the societal context of it all and how that that's like such a big deal about how in a capitalistic world where more and more and more is, is the best. One like Saturn gets a lot of press, especially with like the Age of Aquarius and Omn. Because then we get to see, like the value of Saturn or for like, what it is to be an underdog and like the triumph of even being an underdog and then getting to that level of mastery over a year is even like with the whole like narrative of the Age of Aquarius. It's always something that it's always coming. It's always coming, but it's never here. We never know. Yeah, I think that that's kind of like where the thought ends. But you know,
Kyle Pierce 1:39:28
I think he just hit on something kind of brilliant, actually, when you think of like the the, the the periods of Saturn dignity, you know, or maybe not great times for mainstream society often, but they're also there times where, you know, maybe underdogs get championed a little more 100% Yep. Yeah. Where, you know, the the issues of the underprivileged, less privileged start to get brought to the forefront and maybe start to gain a little bit of traction.
Joe G. 1:39:55
That can't be ignored anymore.
Kyle Pierce 1:39:57
Yeah. Yeah, well, that hadn't occurred. me but yeah the own and it's not like, everything gets fixed. Right and during that five or six year period, but you know, it does seem really it's actually something I want to study a little more now and I'm, it's crazy to me it's like watching that cycle because on the opposite end of it is you have Saturn. Oh you should say that Saturn is a you know it's a malefic planet, right? And it's domiciles our Capricorn and aquarius. It is of the diurnal sect, primarily because it is of a excessively cold and arguably dry, though, I sometimes wonder if it's excessively wet. I don't know. I think there's mainly the cold. Now, there's
Joe G. 1:40:46
winter. It's really interesting how like, we're always gonna get like in the ancient books, it's always like, oh, like death by water or Saturn or like, that's Saturn and all these waters sort of like association is
Kyle Pierce 1:40:58
waters associated with both Saturn signs. And right want to make one point is good. Saturn is very hard. It's very hard. It's not brittle. So a very cold dry thing. Might be hard, but like kind of like iron if you hit it real hard. It shatters
Joe G. 1:41:16
like to think of Saturn as ice.
Kyle Pierce 1:41:19
So that yeah, like, yeah,
Joe G. 1:41:23
it feels dry. But is it
Kyle Pierce 1:41:27
you know, this be subject to debate, for sure. But I think there could, there could be water on Saturn. There can be a moist component to Saturn. But I think what is undisputable is the coldness.
Tristan Paylor 1:41:39
It's it's funny because we associate Saturn very often with heaviness and density, you know, feeling a feeling of weights, and yet the actual planet physically is very light. Like if you put a big enough body of water to it. Yeah, to put Saturn and it would float.
Kyle Pierce 1:41:57
Yeah, right. I don't know what that means.
Joe G. 1:42:03
either. I was like,
Tristan Paylor 1:42:06
one of those things that I'm still wrapping my head around, because generally Saturn, you know, represents things that are that take a long time, PACE is a good symbol, because it freezes, you know, you're like, you're trying to get somewhere and there's a delay, it stops or slows things. And I think I'm talking going back a little bit to what we were talking about with an era of Saturn being kind of an era where, you know, the underdog gets to have their day. You know, it makes me think of what I was saying about how the one of the constructive purposes of the malefics is that when a system has is beyond repair, the malefics are in a destructive force. And we often think of Saturn as being related to structure and to building and but it's a malefic it's destructive, it's a planet of death that ends things and it's it is the boundary it is the final visible planet beyond Saturn, we can't really see any other planets. Arguably, it's like very, you know, it's like possible to see Uranus but extremely difficult as to be ideal conditions, Saturn is really the end of what we can see. So it is endings it is closure. And so it is a power that when a system has outgrown its usefulness. Saturn has a power that will break it down and destroy it. And that's why you know, Saturn returns and Saturn transits are so infamous because, you know, it's sort of like if stuff in your life is not working anymore, and it is beyond repair Saturn is gonna take that final Jenga block out and be like, you can start over and that's not always easy to deal with.
Kyle Pierce 1:43:48
Right? Yeah. Because Saturn rules, limits and endings and death. It also has this kind of reverse opposite end of dealing with longevity, things that last very long time, things that have staying power things that endure, which is maybe an important component of it's sort of dual nature that like all planets have Saturn kind of points to things that have very, very deep roots, you know, that have kind of old Deep Origins, deep foundations. Because you think like a building that is going to stand for a long time and has a good solid foundation while the sun that kind of points to to like kings, you know, people's in leadership, people in authority, Saturn kind of points to the common person. Right. It's like the baseline of society like the the plebs, right? But they're the people that support the rest of society, you know,
Joe G. 1:44:46
but Saturn can also be the king, but I think in that metaphor, it was the other king. Yeah, the populace can there's another one and another country who knows what they do over there.
Tristan Paylor 1:44:59
Is there is like there's definitely a connection between Saturn and authority in the old text that comes up a lot, I see it a lot and like balance combinations of the planets, combinations of planets with Saturn will often indicate authority over things. There's also like, in the mythology of Chronos, see is the leader of the Golden Age, and are a little known aspect of his mythology is that after, you know, the war, between, you know, Zeus and the Titans between the Olympians, and the Titans, you know, the Titans are sent to Tartaros or whatever they're sort of, you know, they disappear from the world. But later on Zeus in a very joopa terian move, you know, extends a hand of mercy and forgiveness and actually makes Kronos the overseer of like the alessian fields, I think it is in the underworld, where, like the, the righteous go to spend eternity after they die in this just like beautiful, you know, idyllic place where they have all of their needs met for all eternity, and everything is lovely. I mean, these are all like the best of the best people. You know, Kronos is the overseer of that. So there's like, there's a sort of, you know, interesting contradiction in Saturn's nature where it's, you know, death and darkness and decay and, and those who are like, exiled and outcast, and at the same time, you know, represents a golden age where everything actually goes well. Right.
Kyle Pierce 1:46:39
And when you think about the cycles of like civilization, right, big social cycles, you know, you get a established system of power, it works, it works, eventually, it doesn't work, you know, and really, what ends up bringing most societies down is that like, it just stops working. The majority of people, the power structure starts to crumble, as it always does, and the people, common people, usually populist, you know, people that like, the people around them are like, Yeah, we like you, let's, let's do it. They're not kings, they don't have the support of kings or the support of people in leadership, they have the support of, of common people, for better or for worse. And those are the people that end up rising up and taking over and creating the new structure and becoming the new kings entering the cycle begins again. So it's kind of like a constant like interchange, you know, like the, the, you know, the slaves of one generation can be the kings of another, and back again.
Tristan Paylor 1:47:49
Also, I mean, that sounds very lunar to me as well, lunar leadership, where the moon is associated with the common people and a leader of the common people. Like I think of Frida Kahlo is one of my favorite chart examples who had an exalted moon right on the midheaven. And was like, very passionately communist right up until the day of her death. And like, even though she was kind of getting her childhood, she was actually brought up in a way that was very unusual. She ended up identifying more with, like, the common people. And, you know, that became like, her her public image is that like, you know, I am, I am, like, you know, my fellow Mexicans, and I identify with, like, the culture of the, like, the common people. Yeah, so I think of that sort of, like lunar leadership too. And this sort of cycles of the sun and the moon sort of turning power over. Yeah.
Joe G. 1:48:54
I think like, a good way to like distinguish, distinguish, both of them wouldn't be like, maybe the moon is like the middle class. And then Saturn is like, poverty, and like rain or actually, like, homeless and and suffering and, like cast aside. Yeah.
Kyle Pierce 1:49:12
It's really the they end up being the people that are the most pissed off, though, at the end of the day, are going to maybe start the insurrection at some point.
Joe G. 1:49:21
But it's also like the people who have the capacity to see an opportunity and like, jump at it right, that second because they know that that won't come again. And I think that one of the things that come with like was moon and comfort and all those things is that with comfort you forget to look for opportunities to flee from troubles, but Saturn is that constant awareness that things don't last. There's that like hyper awareness of time like everything, everything the best of everything is for it to ultimately die and crumble. So I always have to make sure that once this ends, I have something else to replace it and then something else through replacing them.
Tristan Paylor 1:50:07
Yeah, yeah. And also like Saturn being the lord of time, you know, being the the representative of of time in astrology and being the, you know, visible planet that's farthest from the Earth and has the longest cycle tracks sort of the longest periods of time of the traditional planets. So you know, as, as you see, ages come and go, and societies rise and fall. Just like having that perspective is very turning. I think the last time we recorded Joji, you pointed out that, in a lot of traditional texts, Saturn is associated with astrology, like Saturn and Ray together makes astrologers because astrology is all about time, which is like I had never really understood that until you said it. Like why is Why is Saturn with mercury make astrologers? I understand why Mercury's about astrology, but why Saturn, and you pointed out well, astrology is like divining with time and paying attention to cycles of time.
Joe G. 1:51:07
Right. And another thing with mercury and Saturn two, and I think that, like now that we have Uranus, Uranus gets all the hype about technology. But I think technology is also very much Saturnian thing. Because especially like very like Saturn, mercury, sort of like ideals, even like Saturn in Aquarius, because with technology, yes, it's that tool that allows people to like I don't know, farm or like create value and create all those things. But what comes with technology is also like, the novelty that you don't know the consequences of that new thing coming to life, until a lot of time has passed. And then you can see the repercussions of like, I don't know, like we started farming. And now we're like farming at a great scale and the beginning that technology is great. But then when you see, like, over time, the impact of that, that's very much Saturnian. And I think that's how we see technology and Aquarius beyond just Uranus.
Tristan Paylor 1:52:06
That makes a ton of sense. And also, like, you know, thinking about how slow evolution is compared to how fast technology moves, and so we can't really like and today I was thinking about how we really don't know, fully the psychological, social health impacts of social media and having like access to smartphones constantly and constantly experiencing the world through the window of smartphones. And only time will tell. And we it's not the kind of thing where we can adapt to it, like evolution actually takes 1000s and 1000s of years. So as adaptable as we are, if there are negative repercussions to the technology we're using, we will not adapt to it quickly enough to avoid those negative repercussions because we're still adapted to a very different lifestyle. Like we're still biologically adapted to, you know, a lifestyle 1000s of years ago. So yeah, just like having that sort of perspective on technology is like, yeah, I really, I really liked that you brought Saturn into that, that makes a ton of sense.
Kyle Pierce 1:53:20
Yeah, they say, necessity is the mother of invention. Right? Right. And I would think that mean, you really couldn't have even maybe the inspiration or the capacity to invent something without the capacity to criticize what already is, you know, to, to identify what is wrong with what is current, you know, and that is really, really the essence of pure Saturn is actually what's one of my favorite. significations is dishonor. This is the just the the idea of dishonouring mean you say like, oh, being dishonored in a sense, but like being a reverent, right, like not really respecting the authority of Kings not respecting the authority of, of, you know, the flag, it's like, oh, yeah, that's a piece of, of cloth, you know, that we use as a symbol to do this. And that, you know, the Senator has the ability to see what really is, and a sense and see through the sort of fluff, right, the sort of, you know, we can see why things are being done because it's willing to, you know, it doesn't need things to feel good because it already, it's not about feeling good. It's about feeling it's about seeing what is and seeing where things will go seeing the end of something
Joe G. 1:54:39
so interesting that Saturn can be both veteran edition itself, and the one person or the one group defying that tradition, to then create another tradition, and then continue the cycle over and over and over and over and over again. If the I think the title of the great malefic is very are a fitting for that whole cycle because you can never escape it, there will always be tradition, there will always be something that breaks it. And they will and that will become a tradition of it's
Kyle Pierce 1:55:11
like science. I mean, it is a tradition in the sense but it's very much a system of skepticism being critical thinking deductive reasoning with Saturn, because this and this and this is not true. This, you know, that process of elimination, which can be very tedious and boring. Saturn is it's like not a party fun planet. It's tedious, slow moving. And for most people, self included a lot of science. Its prominence my Saturn might be it's not science was never my interest. And I like documentaries. That's, that's science. I like the the entertaining version of it. But the actual practice of it is like very tedious. And actually very interested in the people that will devote themselves to something very specific. Like I love astrology, but astronomy, like will spend days and days and weeks looking at the stars and like the big moment of the year is like discovering this, maybe this object that nobody will ever read about or hear about you or I wouldn't really notice. It's like this world within itself.
Joe G. 1:56:26
Sorry. Sorry, Mike is just doing some weird thing right now.
Tristan Paylor 1:56:33
Speaking of Saturn, which rules cats
Kyle Pierce 1:56:37
totally makes sense because cats build let you pet them when they feel like it. I don't know there's something very like negating about cats. Sometimes
Tristan Paylor 1:56:47
I think it's the fact that there are obstacles and they're limited. It says those two things make them Saturnian. To me. They're also they're liminal in the sense that they're active at dawn and dusk at liminal times of day and they're associated with like access to the spirit world. And you know, Saturn is in that liminal space between what is and what is not you know, being on the boundary between life and death and the visible planets and the rest of the universe that's invisible to the naked eye. But also cats sit on your stairs and in your doorways and just get in your way and don't care Yeah, she's also very sitter was there shaped like sides to Saturn symbol is the is the site like the reaping what has been sown? Yeah, Grim Reaper coming up to you. I think I think we talked about this last time that like a mouse would see a cat as a very Saturnian figure for sure. My eyes my end coming for me.
Kyle Pierce 1:57:51
Think about cats too. Like they were just they were kind of kept around originally. Like to catch rats and mice, vermin and stuff. They weren't necessarily like pets. They were just like, Yeah, okay, you can stick around. You just eat eat or rats. You'll give me some scraps here and there.
Joe G. 1:58:05
Right. And even I guess, like we're talking about poverty in like the sense of like, looking for opportunities, like cats also domesticated themselves. Like they saw that people wouldn't give them food. They're a real like, Okay, sure. Yeah, I'll hang out here. I'll I'll beg and get free food. No problem.
Tristan Paylor 1:58:27
resourcefulness is, I think one of my favorite Saturn keywords and one of my favorite keywords for Saturn's domiciles. Saturn's signs of Capricorn and aquarius. It's like in the northern hemisphere. That's winter. Capricorn and aquarius season, you know, the time that the sun is in those signs is the time when everything is scarce. And you have to be resourceful. And so the fact that like Aquarius is associated with invention makes a lot of sense to me. Because it's like, when everything is is cold and dark and food is scarce. And you know, it's hard to keep your home warm, you invent electricity. Right? Yeah, and Capricorn is about managing resources. So I think that sort of like there's there's a creativity to Saturn that maybe doesn't get talked about because it's not sort of artistic creativity necessarily. It's creativity out of necessity. Yeah, we don't we don't have a lot like lack of options. Yeah. Yeah. Be creative. Yeah, like you've got to make something out of nothing is a very sort of Saturn thing. Like I've got you know, the MacGyver It feels very Oh yeah, honey and figure error like whatever I you know, I've got an elastic band and chewed up piece of gum in my pocket. What can I you know, how can I solve this problem with the things that I have in my pockets?
Joe G. 1:59:51
Right. And I think that's what like another reason why mercury and Saturn do so well together. Because, like, I think cuz, again, I don't know if this is the pika tricks, but it's one of them. But I think one of the key words is that Mercury is the planet of people who become rich. They're not rich initially, but they make themselves rich. And I thought that that was like such a Saturnian thing. And then like looking at the table of like friendship and enmities, and seeing how well Saturn and Mercury do together, and some people even say that mercury might be exalted in Aquarius, and all of that. I think it's super interesting.
Kyle Pierce 2:00:34
Yeah, I was just going to say something about the service component of Saturn. But like, you think like the water bearer is Aquarius is really a servant. Since you know, in like service workers, people in the service industry, it's Saturn, they are not very well paid, you know, people who aren't paid enough people who don't have a lot of options. Those are people who are doing things like service, you know, waiting tables, or just whatever they have to do to make ends meet. That's, that's a very Saturn condition.
Tristan Paylor 2:01:12
And, you know, like we've talked about a lot I think the malefics being about doing the things nobody wants to do. Oh, yeah, Saturn, Saturn shows up and, you know, takes out the trash and does the unpleasant work does the unsung work does the work in the shadows that people don't see is not sort of doing things for the sake of the spotlight. Like, you know, the sun is all about being seen doing things and being seen doing good and honorable things. And Saturn, what Saturn does is not always seen or acknowledged, and usually not something that anybody really feels like doing.
Kyle Pierce 2:01:49
Yeah. excetera gets like associate with like, ambition a lot. Or like, discipline and maybe we already mentioned it a little bit before it's the kind of difference between Mars and Saturn. Is that like Mars really wants stuff. Saturn like doesn't, I don't know. Saturn's like wants everything to go away. Kind of its parents are minimalist. Yeah, it's very minimalist it
Tristan Paylor 2:02:14
like a lot of negative space that like emphasizes negative space always me Yeah, give Saturn right.
Kyle Pierce 2:02:20
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, understated things, too. It's nice when like Venus or Venus Saturn combines with other things it gets like an you were really get the best qualities of Saturn is when it's combining with other symbols, because it really has a way of and I can curtail the excesses of other things and you can focus on other planets.
Tristan Paylor 2:02:47
It's you know, like you were talking about Kyle, the critical thinking faculty, which I think is another reason that Saturn and Mercury works so well together because Saturn is about thinking critically. And that is a really really important thing to pair with mercury when you're exploring all of these different ideas to be able to really think critically about them and you know, have a healthy amount of doubt and skepticism including like your you know, around your most cherished beliefs like being able to hold doubt and faith simultaneously. Yeah, you know, that's maybe an area where Jupiter and Saturn balance each other out where Jupiter is the faith component and Saturn is the doubt and being able to you know, find a balance between those two without denying either one of them
Joe G. 2:03:37
I think like to with mercury mercury gets gets the fame for being the jack of all trades, but then with the jack of all trades, there's always like that Master of None sort of like a moniker that comes with it. Yeah, but then Saturn you're the jack of all trades and you also are the master of them all the time to master all of them one by one.
Kyle Pierce 2:04:00
I love that. That's perfect. Mercury will dabble and you without without Saturn to focus it can use a little just a little more more Saturn and Mercury
Joe G. 2:04:15
but very thankful for my Mercury Saturn Trine.
Tristan Paylor 2:04:20
Yeah, you will be the master of all
Joe G. 2:04:23
hope not.
Kyle Pierce 2:04:26
Well, yeah, that's maybe one of the great lessons of Saturn is like, not not having the time to to be the master of all things. Like I was actually one of the most depressing it's actually on a daily basis. One of the most depressing things for me is the there's so many interesting things, you know, are so many worlds within worlds, you know, sister was telling me about she's really likes anime and like, there's this whole world of anime that I just am totally oblivious to. And it's all sounds really interesting, but I like to I time, I don't have time to open up my world to that I would love to, but there is just there just isn't enough space, in my, in my world for it.
Tristan Paylor 2:05:11
Yeah, Saturn forces you to recognize your limits. And it's like the Saturn cycles are interesting because they mark like Saturn returns mark these really significant milestones and aging where you know, you have your first Saturn Return in your late 20s. When you're sort of like, you're finally figuring out what adulthood is. And then you know, you have your next Saturn Return when a lot of people are getting ready for retirement. And then if you're lucky, you get another one. And by that point, you're probably thinking about your mortality quite a lot. So it's sort of like at each of these stages, you're recognizing the limits on your time that you only have so much time to do things, you start to start to recognize the limits of your body, like when you get to your late 20s, that's about the time where it's like you can't just eat whatever you want, and do whatever you feel like anymore, your body starts giving you clues that it's not happy with you, you know. So like, You got to start making sure you're exercising and eating well and getting enough sleep because you're not indestructible anymore. And Saturn lets you know, like you are not in fact, indestructible, you are not immortal, your body can and will break down. Yeah.
Joe G. 2:06:21
And I think that that's one of the reasons why Saturn is rejoices in the 12th house. Because I think, for you to really be the master of all things, you have to deny all these other things and isolate yourself with just the thing that you want to master and nothing else. And that comes with the exclusion and distance from others. Because if you are so involved in the thing that you want to create, or the thing that you want to be the best at, like people and relationships are a distraction, like your every time that you spend, like hanging out with a person or just having a funnel time. It's a another second that you wasting from like really mastering that thing. And me with my Angular siren, that's a thought that is always in looming in my head that I work really hard not to let take over. But yeah, it's very anxiety inducing.
Tristan Paylor 2:07:28
Yeah, like people, you know, there's sort of great geniuses throughout history, who like master these incredibly difficult disciplines often don't have the best family lives, like they're not, they're sacrificing, you know, having relationships and having connections with other people in order to isolate themselves and focus on on their passion. And like, you're really, really hitting my Venus in the 12th right now, or it's sort of like, I can't I have this, like, intense need to be creating, like doing are making artistic creations of some kind. But there's this choice between, you know, the time that I spend with other people. And in order to be creative, I have to really shut everything out, shuttered all distractions, shut myself down, lock myself in a room. And it's funny because it's like when I was younger, and you know, kind of a misfit and had a hard time making friends, I made a lot more art. And now that I'm, you know, I've learned some are social skills, and I have a much easier time making friends. I don't spend so much time making art. It's like, at some point, you do have to shut things out to master something, it's a difficult choice that people face. That's true.
Kyle Pierce 2:08:49
It is the funny thing about Saturn because one of the big things to Saturn is it does tend to point to things that get better with age get improve over time. And kind of there's like levels to that because sometimes think it's sometimes kind of like Saturn like eases up a little bit. But I also often think about how Saturn can be such a buzzkill. It's, you know, somebody at the party who or wherever, who's just who's telling you the truth. But it's just it's not fun. It's not pleasant. It's not enjoyable to hear. But you know, that person has been saying that thing all the time. 10 years down the line, everybody's lived all the mistakes that you know, Saturn was saying we're going to happen and then they become the one that's like look to like, oh, you knew all along. You're the one that we didn't want to listen to because what you said was not fun. But now, now we'll listen because we've been humbled. Like you Saturn.
Tristan Paylor 2:09:55
Yeah, seven can be very humbling. sort of bring you down off of your high Of course,
Kyle Pierce 2:10:00
it humbles. All right. Right. But I mean, Saturn also points to the appreciation for humbler things not needing to have exes and extravagances and crazy indulgences to be happy. In a sense, Saturn isn't itself happy, but its influence can make other make you a more balanced person in the sense that you don't need. You don't need everything you know, or you can come home at yourself. Make do without
Joe G. 2:10:33
I think, I think it's like a really nice distinction between like Mars and Saturn. Because I think Mars with that competitiveness in that like drive to achieve things can come like a sense of like self, like, Oh, I am victorious. But then I think Saturn seeks to achieve not even for like, self gratification. It's just like, I am just here in service of this thing that I have to make. It's like, my needs don't matter. That's why I can just not meet me but like, I'm speaking of Saturn. Yeah, I mean, just like, stay in this dark corner. And I don't know, read 1000 books, again, physics books and become Einstein or whatever. But my hygiene skills, my personal skills, none of those matter. I just have to make this
Kyle Pierce 2:11:28
thing better. And I do believe specifically does signify poor hygiene.
Joe G. 2:11:34
Does it actually
Tristan Paylor 2:11:35
supposed to Yeah, mine signifies the soil. Yeah, it's all about balance says it's literally the soil and farmers and cleanliness the soil. And my favorite example of this that I love to tell people is the day that I learned this when I was first studying balance anthology. And I was reading the section on Saturn, my Capricorn rising partner came inside from working in the yard, or working in the in the basement just like covered head to toe and dirt and ash. Like dressed all in black covered head to toe and dirt. And I was like, this is Saturn can be a great fuel. Witnessing Saturn, I love the dirt. Yeah. And when we do when we do yard work, you know when we're like laying the compost out on the you know, the stinky compost. I think like in the pika tricks, one of the passages for like, incense of Saturn is stuff that like is pungent or smells bad. Is like pleasing. Winter. Yeah, like excrement and wet dirt.
Joe G. 2:12:39
There's like a ritual that like involves the head of a black cat. Yeah. And they're like, you keep the blood and you make sure you use that blood to make the incidence that's like whoa.
Kyle Pierce 2:12:57
Saturn doesn't give a fuck like, oh, yeah, oh, I'll play with some cat blood.
Joe G. 2:13:02
But like, we have to also think that at around that time, they were doing like divination through animal entrails. Like, animal sacrifice was very much normal.
Tristan Paylor 2:13:12
And made sense. Because you're, I think with like, it's a very different context where like, meat is harder to come by. And you would eat it communally. And it would be like an event of great religious significance. And often event where like people who don't get a lot of food actually get an opportunity to have some meat. And so you're slaughtering the animal anyway to like, feed a large group of people. And so you know, you're acknowledging you're thanking the gods, you're offering some up to the gods and then you read the entrails to determine whether or not the offering is accepted by the gods. So it's not like somebody's going out of their way to kill something in order to divine it's like it's just part of the process of life, like we're eating an animal and as part of that process, we're also communicating with the gods
Joe G. 2:14:01
what would be the modern equivalent, sacrificing your phone? To a firepit
Tristan Paylor 2:14:11
so sometimes, I Devine with my noodles, like sometimes you'll see, you know, Runic shapes and astrological glyphs and what have you and your ramen, oh,
Joe G. 2:14:20
man, like I have. It's really weird because I have so many, like, different like, oracle decks, and all these sorts of things. And like, eventually get to a point where everything can be a process of divination, as long as you're just like, here divining. I think I started with experimenting with divination with like coins actually, just like tossing them and seeing like, what side of it would fall and that was kind of limiting. So I eventually got a tarot deck. But I don't know where I'm going with this. But should we wrap things up?
Kyle Pierce 2:14:57
Yeah, so yeah,
Tristan Paylor 2:14:58
we actually do like so. And
Kyle Pierce 2:15:01
yeah, we do have to Yeah. The the lesson that Saturn teaches us is that all things come to an end and you know this. This episode is not exempt from that. So, yeah, any parting words for Saturn or any of the other planets?
Joe G. 2:15:22
I think we need to find titles for all the other ones because we have the Lord a seaman Lord lube and the Lord decays, but then the other one they're missing.
Tristan Paylor 2:15:34
I would like to invite people to write into the show with your titles for the planets
Kyle Pierce 2:15:41
sports would be like the Lord of nerdiness, right? That's catchy. But it is the Lord like your
Joe G. 2:15:47
nerdy about modern nerds that that would make sense.
Kyle Pierce 2:15:51
Dennis was what was it the boys boobs? Lower to blue. Demons Jupiter. What was Mars?
Joe G. 2:16:00
Mars? We didn't have one. I guess it's a the listeners have to chime in.
Kyle Pierce 2:16:05
Yes, please. You can you can send us an email at astrology hotline pod.com Or you can and we need like a thing where you can actually post because Instagram I feel like you can't like post on our page right?
Tristan Paylor 2:16:22
We need a we need one of those numbers that people can text Yeah.
Joe G. 2:16:26
Oh, like all in that'd be fun. Yeah,
Kyle Pierce 2:16:30
I really want yeah, they're just their services like that. It's like a discord channel. Yeah, potentially.
Tristan Paylor 2:16:37
We could do a discord channel. Which other modern love discord
you've just signed yourself up for
Joe G. 2:16:56
doing that.
Tristan Paylor 2:16:59
Okay, perfect because I hate saying no to people.
Joe G. 2:17:02
I love it.
Tristan Paylor 2:17:04
You get some characters on Discord people just come in say whatever they want and troll and like a nice community. Yeah,
Joe G. 2:17:12
man. managerial roles. I love them. It's the best.
Kyle Pierce 2:17:18
That's that's sun sign on your head. It's true.
Tristan Paylor 2:17:24
Yeah. All right. We've been trying. We've been trying to wrap this
Joe G. 2:17:30
up for real not here. He left.
Tristan Paylor 2:17:33
I know where he's like. Saturn is stuff to do.
Kyle Pierce 2:17:38
Where are you Saturn? Are there any mutable planets even out right now?
Tristan Paylor 2:17:42
Mars? Or do you mean like visible in the sky?
Kyle Pierce 2:17:47
I guess even our chart real quick. I think wrapping things up. getting distracted.
Tristan Paylor 2:17:54
Yeah, what are you doing? We've got the moon Gemini. Yes. Beautiful. Yes.
Kyle Pierce 2:17:57
Got into Gemini.
Joe G. 2:17:59
Or no? Yeah, drive.
Kyle Pierce 2:18:03
Mars's cadent
Tristan Paylor 2:18:04
right now and that's why we can't
Kyle Pierce 2:18:07
be cancer is cancer rising looks like cancers rising this is
Tristan Paylor 2:18:11
where I am Virgo is just rising. Just changed it's zero degrees in 15 minutes.
Kyle Pierce 2:18:18
I don't have a good chart right now send it
Joe G. 2:18:20
with any Rupert or rather the descendants. I love the the astrology math. We say you're one thing it's like oh yeah. Mercury is here. Mars is there Saturn is and you're mapping the whole chart in your head.
Kyle Pierce 2:18:33
I use it it actually it happens really easily. I love it. It seems fun. Really weird. Like put together like it's it feels like you're a detective. I don't know. Like people will drop little tidbits of information about their chart and then you like want to like to deduce like all these different things like oh, I can tell that you must be a day char Yeah, you know, I wonder where this planet is
Tristan Paylor 2:18:53
right? You were born in your eyes? Yeah, you got the sun in the fourth house so you were born I love I love doing
Joe G. 2:19:03
because it all starts with like oh you're probably like a Pisces or you're probably like a Scorpio and then it goes into like oh you're probably like a Mars ruled the Moon in the fifth house trying Jupiter or whatever. Yeah,
Tristan Paylor 2:19:18
I know I go straight for the planets like I don't I don't think Oh, you must be this or that sign. I'm like oh, you've got some like hard aspects. Or something like that's the that's where my
Kyle Pierce 2:19:28
place to start. Thank you just you know what planet are the most like, what's the most prominent planet?
Tristan Paylor 2:19:34
Like Callum MacLeod My first thought was not what scientists this guy was what are the ML ethics doing? The dog or rode with a pickaxe in his 50s This is like Saturn persones
Kyle Pierce 2:19:48
ruled by Capricorn rising to me but
Joe G. 2:19:53
but the whole sign thing is like actually very recent. Like whenever you read ancient texts, they're always like much more focused on planets than anything else. Yeah,
Tristan Paylor 2:20:03
big time. Yeah and that's the that is the direction my interpretations have moved in it's planets and houses are the major things planets houses and like the closest applying aspects those are like things I hone in on think houses end up being my favorite signs are so like some flavor, you know, houses are my favorite. I love love love the houses
Kyle Pierce 2:20:25
like that's like what are the deepest rheology is in where the meanings get? Complicated.
Tristan Paylor 2:20:30
Interesting. So they get grounded like in an actual lay. Yeah, bro. Yeah. Astrology down to earth like literally brings astrology down to earth because it's like where does Earth intersect with the Eclipse? in your local area? Yeah. That's what defines the houses
Kyle Pierce 2:20:46
are we really have to wrap it up
Tristan Paylor 2:20:52
would we Joji would you like to share with us what what you're up to these days?
Joe G. 2:20:59
Yeah, um, my podcast with Gemini. Brett actually now is out. We release. Yeah. We just released the first episode yesterday on fleet versus freewill. It was a storytelling right? Storytelling. Yeah. It's on his YouTube channel or any of his I think social media he only uses Facebook and Instagram maybe but YouTube channel for sure you can find it. There's always my website where you can book readings and all that fun stuff. What's your website? Oh, yeah, it's a V Mercury rising.com. And I think I already talked about this, but I'm working on this series of planetary correspondences in music. Starting with, like, the rudimentary ease of just waveforms and wave shapes and sounds Yeah, how that interacts. There's probably going to be an article on my website coming up very soon. But yeah, some crazy stuff in the works. And it's amazing music nerdery collides with astrology. It's so gets gnarly.
Kyle Pierce 2:22:13
I feel like once Venus goes direct can be a bunch of like new stuff, like coming out.
Tristan Paylor 2:22:19
Everyone's just gonna, like crawl out of their basements and studio. stuff they did.
Kyle Pierce 2:22:26
Well, yeah. What about you interesting. What do you have going on?
Tristan Paylor 2:22:28
I I don't know. Let me try that again. So you can book an astrology reading with me. I do natal chart readings. I do business synastry and forecasting and all that fun stuff. at my website, bad sign astrology.ca You can also find my musings on the current planetary weather and other astrological stuff at my Instagram page. Bad sign astrology or on Tumblr. Also, same name bad sign astrology.
Joe G. 2:23:04
Your Instagram is beautiful. By the way, just like you
Kyle Pierce 2:23:10
do put together a good Instagram. I don't know why I'm the one running the astrology hotline Instagram.
Tristan Paylor 2:23:16
I can do it. I'm happy to take over. I'll come up with like I feel like I'm so bad. I didn't. I was like I liked doing it. Okay, well then I'll do it. Yeah, please. I'll do it. I have fun with that stuff. Yeah, it'll probably explode. What have you got going
Kyle Pierce 2:23:36
on? Me I have you can book a reading with me at Kyle Pierce astrology.com. You can also follow me for whatever it's worth on Instagram, at astrology for earthlings as well as Tumblr. The same
Tristan Paylor 2:23:54
Astrology of earthlings is astrology. Number Number four links
Kyle Pierce 2:23:58
for you know, because you know, for actually, you know, it gives notes FLR not fo you are but they're the same word. So you can actually use numbers instead of words sometimes.
Joe G. 2:24:18
Thanks for the hurt to hear
Kyle Pierce 2:24:23
what I'm good for. Yes, but anywho Yeah, that's what I have going on. So thanks again so much for joining us again, Joe. Gee, I expect to have you back in the future. I'd be happy to
Tristan Paylor 2:24:40
Yeah, thank you so much God for your all your time and wisdom. This has been great. I feel like I've keep learning new and new new things. It never it never stops. I've learned a lot of cool things for me to do in these episodes. So thank you for
Joe G. 2:24:54
that. Oh, thank you guys. I also learned so much and it's always just so fun to connect with other astrologers. shoe are fantastic like you guys are
Kyle Pierce 2:25:04
sitting way too warm for me
Joe G. 2:25:10
take a compliment Yes,
Kyle Pierce 2:25:13
cancer moment thank you all for listening and we'll see you next time.
Tristan Paylor 2:25:26
If you have a question you'd like to hear answered on astrology hotline, send us an email at astrology hotline pod@gmail.com.
Kyle Pierce 2:25:40
potential scenario. Astrology hotline is at war at war on answered astrology questions. We have the weapons, we have the training, but to achieve ultimate victory, we need your help. I want you to take out your phone. Open up Apple podcasts. Subscribe to astrology hotline. crush all five stars and rain down a righteous review of furious satisfaction. I want you to open up Spotify. Subscribe to astrology hotline and launch one high speed thumb of flaming death at that five star rating. And I want you to find the gnarliest most insidious astrology question you can find. Email it to astrologyhotlinrpod@gmail.com So we slaughter it mercilessly on show. Together, we can conquer astrology one question at a time.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
