What is the difference between Trines and Sextiles?
Kyle Pierce 0:00
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Whoa, you're listening to astrology hotline. I'm Kyle and hosting me today is Tristan Paylor. (Hello.) We got an amazing show for y'all today. How are you doing? Tristen?
Tristan Paylor 1:13
I am very caffeinated. Very high. I actually quit coffee last year I was a everyday coffee drinker from the age of about 13 until my early 30s and quit last year. And I just have green tea to start my day. But this afternoon I needed a little pick me up so I had maybe half a cup of Earl Grey tea and I am wired.
Kyle Pierce 1:39
Oh, that sounds I see. That's the thing is that I want to quit coffee, just so that I can go back to that. Just so that I can go back to drinking a cup of coffee and feeling amazing afterwards. Because now it's just like I drink a cup of coffee before before bed. Nothing. Yeah, it's it's bad. I love coffee. It's the nectar of the gods. The Nectar of Mars.
Tristan Paylor 2:05
Mercury. I think it's I think Mercury is central nervous system stimulant that helps you study and hold conversations.
Kyle Pierce 2:15
Yeah, is it Austin Copic once said that coffee is like good Mercury remediation, but it's a little bit more like mercury and Aries. It's not like mercury at its most natural state, but it's like more of like a hyper hyper mercury.
Tristan Paylor 2:29
I think green tea is a good compromise there. Green Green tea is like Mercury in Virgo. And espresso is like mercury and Aries. Yeah, green tea has one. There's another substance in green tea that counteracts the effects of the caffeine a little bit so that it helps you focus without making you feel frazzled.
Kyle Pierce 2:55
Or anything to get my slow mercury and Taurus moving. Speaking of which is especially sluggish today. It's Thanksgiving, the day that we're recording in America, and I don't really do Thanksgiving dinner so much, but I do do Thanksgiving breakfast. And I had quite the bacon induced coma this afternoon. And while the nap was very refreshing, I definitely still feeling the effects of that of that bacon. It's potent stuff.
Tristan Paylor 3:31
It is potent. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 3:33
I like half a package of bacon. It was it was amazing.
Tristan Paylor 3:35
That'll do it. Should you ever need to sleep for several hours in the middle of the day?
Kyle Pierce 3:40
Oh, I don't need an excuse for that.
Tristan Paylor 3:43
Me neither generally speaking,
Kyle Pierce 3:47
shall we? I don't have a fancy interlude for that. But I'm
Tristan Paylor 3:52
trying to think of a clever segue into my next question. And
Unknown Speaker 3:55
it's just not. It's not out there in today. So
Tristan Paylor 3:58
we're just going to awkwardly transition from that conversation into our first question, which comes from my buddy Shay. And Shay wants to know more about the difference between trines and sextiles. What what makes a Trine distinct from a sextile? What are some of the interpretive differences between these aspects? Because, you know, when we see them described, they often seem pretty similar to each other. So what makes them distinct?
Kyle Pierce 4:30
Well, excellent question. Che. I love an excuse to just dig into like the minut differences between one thing and another. Hopefully, we keep that under an hour today. But
Tristan Paylor 4:48
no guarantees. Yeah,
Kyle Pierce 4:50
no, no guarantees on that is maybe one of the ways that traditionally trines and sextiles were distinguished was that trines are of the nature of Jupiter and sextiles are of the nature of Venus. And part of the way that that ends up sort of differentiating them is that you know, Venus is the lesser benefic lesser in the sense that it's closer to the sun and its orbit isn't as large it's part of the the inner solar system while Jupiter has, you know, that big grandiose orbit of 12 years. And so, you know, it's not that one is better than the other one is just that, that
Tristan Paylor 5:36
it's a matter of scale, as opposed to a matter of superiority or strength or what have you.
Kyle Pierce 5:44
Yeah. But you know, maybe we should distinguish the definition of the tribe in a sextile.
Tristan Paylor 5:52
That is a good idea. So, aspects happen between signs that have something in common with one another. In the case of a Trine, they have an element in common with one another, and they sit you know, there are signs that sit roughly 120 degrees apart on the wheel. So, they form a triangular shape. So for example, the earth signs are all trying one another. So if a planet is in Capricorn and another planet is in Taurus, those planets are trying in the case of a sextile. It is the polarity that the two signs share in common. So you have two polarities, in astrology, I tend to refer to them as diurnal and nocturnal. Some people refer to them as masculine and feminine. I, for obvious reasons, I'm not super fond of that distinction. So I use diurnal and nocturnal, and the diurnal signs are of the fire and air element, they're more active and outward, focused and more externally focused. The nocturnal signs are the water and earth signs that are more internally focused and more passive. So if two signs have their polarity in common, and they're not opposite to each other than they are sextile. And signs that are sextile, you know, when you look at them on the Zodiac wheel, they form a hexagon. So if you have a planet in Capricorn, and you have a planet in Scorpio, because they share a polarity, they are sextile, one another, even though they are different elements in different modes, they have that polarity in common, and so they are sextile,
Kyle Pierce 7:52
they have one sign in between them.
Tristan Paylor 7:55
That's it. Yeah, that's another way of looking at it. Two signs that have one sign in between them.
Kyle Pierce 8:01
And then there's also the degree based way of looking at a sextile. Wow, you know, traditionally and Tristan and I probably go more this way is that we would emphasize the sign relationship. But the closer they get in degree, to that aspect, you know, the more the more intense that relationship is. So sextile would be an additional a division of the Zodiac by six, which would be 60 degrees. So plants that are 60 degrees apart from each other, or sextile. But then, you know, sometimes you can get into fuzzy territory where you'll get one planet at the very beginning of a sine and the other at the very end. And E there'll be in a very close degree based aspect, but they're not in like a sine based relationship. So we'll say like a planet, say, you know, Venus is in Pisces, at 29 degrees. And Mercury is in Gemini at zero degrees in 30 minutes. You know, they're in a very close degree based sextile. But because, you know, the sign relationship, those are our square signs. More traditionally minded astrologers wouldn't say that they're sextile. But they're actually square. But yeah, that that can become you know, it's almost like an open up for interpretation, I guess.
Tristan Paylor 9:25
Yeah, they're different, different approaches. And I think, you know, Kyle and I both take the, we emphasize the sine relationship over the degree relationship. And you know, as Kyle said, the closer they are by degree, it's a matter of intensity. So if a if a planet is in Capricorn and another planet is in Pisces, those two planets are sextile even if one is at zero degrees and the others at 29, but the closer they are to being exactly 60 degrees apart, the more sort of intense and significant that will lationship is and the more that aspect will be sort of central to the chart and more visible in a person's life. So if you're, if you're looking at aspects in your chart, start by looking at the ones that are the closest by degree because those are usually the ones that like the planets are really trying to tell you something when Yeah, aspects are that close to, like pay attention to this relationship between these two areas of your life. It's really significant.
Kyle Pierce 10:29
Yeah, totally. And, sort of on that note, well, sort of maybe how trines and sextiles are sort of different traditionally differentiated that sextile you know, it's half of a Trine if you divide the Zodiac 360 degrees, by three, you get 120 degrees, which is the you know, the strongest degree based aspect of a Trine. But if you cut that in half, you get a sextile 60 degrees. A lot of the ways that it's scribed in a lot of traditional literature. The way it's used a lot, still is that sextiles have the sort of ease and cooperative nature of a Trine but they're just not as strong. They're about half as strong as a Trine. It's not like a useless distinction. I just I don't it can be a bit of an oversimplification. You agree?
Tristan Paylor 11:32
I am not a huge fan of the idea that sextiles are weaker. Yeah, I yeah, I am gonna, I'm gonna die on that hill. But before I die on that hill, just to to go over the basics a little bit more before to in order to understand conceptually, the difference between trines and sextiles, it helps to understand you know, like Kyle was saying earlier, the Trine is of the nature of Jupiter and the sextile is of the nature of Venus. But why is that the case. So understanding why that's the case is helpful. And then remembering that distinction is helpful when you're considering the difference. So, the reasoning for all all of the aspects have the nature of either a genetic or a melodic planet, squares, and opposition's and trines and sextiles all of those four aspects have the nature of a planet. And knowing what that nature is can help you to interpret that aspect and what kind of relationship is going on between the planets that are aspecting each other. And the rationale for those associations between say Jupiter and the Trine comes from the domicile assignment system, which is that every planet or every sign is ruled by a planet. And if you draw up a Zodiac wheel, and you place the planets in their domiciles on a Zodiac wheel, so you know, you put Saturn in Capricorn and aquarius, and you put the sun in Leo, and you put Mars in Scorpio and Aries and you look at that wheel. And you look at the Sun and the Moon. The Sun and the Moon are aspecting the benefic and malefic planets in a certain way. And this is it's a hard thing to explain without visuals. So I'll include a visual of this in the show notes and if you pull up the show notes and look at it, it's it's really easy to see. Because the sun and the moon are so central to astrology, they're sort of like they're the sources of light and the power centers in astrology. The focus is on them and the aspects they make to the benefic and malefic planets by domicile. So you know the sun in Leo makes a trine to Jupiter's domicile of Sagittarius because they're both fire signs. And the sun in Leo makes a sextile aspect to Venus in Libra. And the moon in cancer makes a sextile to Venus in Taurus and the moon in cancer makes a trine to Jupiter in Pisces. So when you look at the ruler ships of the signs by the planets, you can see these aspect based relationships from the sun and the moon to the other planets. And that's where Ancient astrologers came up with the rationale that the Trine is particularly of the nature of Jupiter and the sextile is particularly of the nature of Venus because those their domiciles make those aspects to the domiciles of the sun and the moon.
Kyle Pierce 15:20
Yeah, and I, I really do like using, as you can probably tell, just from listening to the show is we do reference that a lot. You know, we're talking about squares, let's say, Oh, well squares of the nature of Mars. That's not the only dimension to look at the nature of an aspect through, but it can be a very useful one, especially when you're trying to maybe differentiate the qualities of, say, a Trine and a sextile. But if you're going with, you know, a Trine being the nature of Jupiter, what is the nature of Jupiter, Jupiter stabilizes. And it also induces growth and expansion. While Venus harmonises also has a stabilizing quality, both of benefics tend to stabilize things. But Venus brings things together, takes one thing, matches it with another thing and combines them in ways that are pleasing to people. And I think that that distinction becomes really useful with, say, a sextile. Because you're dealing with two signs that have something in common when it comes to polarity, right? Say Capricorn, and Scorpio. Scorpio is a water sign, while Capricorn is an earth sign, so they're both what you would call nocturnal or some would say feminine, or I always get yin and yang mixed up, which ones which, but, you know, they're I like nocturnal and diurnal, the most, but they have that in common. So but they're also different. You know, earth and water are two different things. And while you know, a Trine brings together two signs that are the same element, so there's an inherent compatibility already there. They're just like, oh, earth, combined with more Earth, together, we make more Earth while you know, earth, combined with water, you know, is going to create something different, something new, something maybe a little more dynamic.
Tristan Paylor 17:30
Yeah, I think that's one of the keys in how I interpret the difference between trines and sextiles, is that signs that are trying to one another have two things in common, if two signs are of the same element, that means they are also of the same polarity two water signs are also both nocturnal signs. Whereas with the sextile, the signs involved don't have elements in common, they only have polarity in common. So they have one less feature in common with one another. So there are more sort of differences between them. And that is, what Venus does is brings things together that you know, where there are, there are differences between them, but Venus is able to harmonize those differences so that they work together in unity.
Kyle Pierce 18:19
Yeah, it's why I also don't like to say that trines are more powerful than sextiles because they do slightly different things, you know, they a sextile requires maybe a little more, sort of looking for active involvement. You know, the two planets are conversing with each other through a sextile. They both have like slightly different ideas of how they want to go about doing things. So there is some compromise involved. There's some exchange interplay, and you'll get that with a Trine as well, but it's just maybe, I don't know there's something more creative, I think about sextiles or something more. There's just more creative interplay between the two signs because there there is more more of a difference.
Tristan Paylor 19:12
I've think it's really interesting that sort of interpretive principle that because mathematically, a sextile is half a Trine it's weaker, and yet what I've learned about Hellenistic astrology, I don't see that case being made for squares and opposition's square, especially in overcoming square where one sign or one planet is earlier in the Zodiac than the other which it is squaring is considered one of the most powerful aspects possible. And yet, mathematically, a square is half of an opposition. I don't know I can't help but feel like there's a bit of sexism going on in the other's tongues. sextiles being weaker, right where you know, Venus is traditionally considered feminine and associated with women and Jupiter is traditionally considered masculine and associated with male authority. And so somehow the Venus's aspect is weaker than Jupiter's aspects. I just this is why this is a hill I'll die on I don't I don't think sextiles are weaker. I think that they, they have a different interpretation, but they're not weaker. I think that what really distinguishes trines and sextiles is more a matter of scale. And I think that can the same can be said for squares, and opposition's where squares of the nature of Mars and an opposition is of the nature of Saturn, you know, Mars is the lesser malefic and Saturn's the greater malefic, not because one is superior, but because Saturn has the wider orbit and it's farther away, takes more time to move through the zodiac. So, Jupiter and Saturn tend to represent things on a larger scale than Venus and Mars do. And you know, an interpretive distinction that is probably familiar to a lot of people who know basic astrology is that Venus and Mars tend to be interpreted as having more to do with personal issues. And Jupiter and Saturn are interpreted as having more to do with societal issues. And I think that interpretive distinction is part of the difference between the Trine and the sextile, where, you know, both both aspects are considered to be beneficial and supportive and cooperative. And in the case of a Trine, I tend to think, you know, it represents benefits and privileges, and opportunities that you get, you know, through social institutions or through your position in your culture or in your society, you know, or in a fairly large institution, whereas sextiles being of the nature of Venus represent more benefits that come through one on one interpersonal relationships are small group dynamics, like your group of personal friends that you are around, because you have a personal connection with them, you know, or you grew up with them, you have things in common with them, as opposed to more Jupiter style social connections, which might be you know, members of your political party members of your church members of your university. You know, people in positions of political power in your society, those are the more Jupiter II relationships. So if you're looking at trying in your chart, the benefit might be coming from, say, a university professor, or an opportunity that you got through you know, a government program or a community program on a large
Kyle Pierce 22:59
scale, just like your socioeconomic status,
Tristan Paylor 23:02
yeah, your socioeconomic status as well. Whereas, you know, a benefit that you receive from Venus might be benefit that you receive from a romantic partner or a close friend or a neighbor or a sibling or a family member.
Kyle Pierce 23:17
Yeah, in through, like, maybe more one on one interaction, like he said, I think that was perfect. Actually, point. actually made me think because the, speaking of the sort of sexism in the description of, of, a lot of astrology, but trines, you know, when you think of, I don't know, we had, like, traditionally, like male managers or for watch the show Mad Men. You know, people get sort of hired because they're, they fit in, you know, with the, the established authority, right? They, they, they're part of the boys club, you know, it's kind of like what a trend is like, it's, you know, you're, oh, you're, you're in, you're in this, this group, you're in this clique, you're in this club, and we are going to support you and elevating you in status, because you're one of us. Wow. sextile can be a bit more like, my experience of having not that this is, you know, strictly something that only women do, or only men do. But I know that a lot of like female managers I've had have been like, Oh, I see, you know, I see this about you. And let's, you know, have a meeting and talk about how we can make this thing about you work, how you can emphasize this, how you can bring more value to the team and yourself like, I don't know there's more of a one on one exchange and more of a fostering, what is maybe individual what is unique and special, which I think was a good point you were making about the kind of benefits from social institutions and things like that, it's like a Trine will stabilize and affirm what already is and kind of keep that going and build off of that, while a sextile will sort of build and emphasize, you know, specific things more.
Tristan Paylor 25:15
It's more collaborative,
Kyle Pierce 25:17
collaborative. Exactly. Yeah.
Tristan Paylor 25:19
Yeah, I think I think sextiles are are more collaborative than trines. It's, it's more of a matter of co creation, like two people are making something together. And the trend is a little more sort of top down potentially.
Kyle Pierce 25:33
Yeah. Yeah, I was actually just reading. Pretorius has this really great section, and Carmen astrological, where he's describing aspects between different planets. And, you know, like, Mars, Trine Jupiter is like, being born of like, a noble family, like a history of in the military. And it's like, oh, you're, you know, your father was a general. And now you're gonna be a general to you like part of the that that institution, you know, being born into the institution being born into privilege and status. Which he actually doesn't really have. I don't think that there is a ton about sextiles. Just ignore, like,
Tristan Paylor 26:22
they totally get ignored. And yeah, in my own practice, I see them working really powerfully, and often, I think, more sustainably. Yeah. Because I think that, you know, I think the difference in style, a little bit between Venus and Jupiter is say, like Venus and Jupiter, both want to help you with your problems. They both want to smooth over difficulties. And, but they both have different ways of doing it. So you know, just to give a hypothetical example, you have to solve a riddle in order to reach a goal. And Venus is going to give you hints, Venus is is going to empower you to solve the riddle yourself. Jupiter is just gonna slide in there and give you the answer. That's perfect. Yeah, exactly. And, and then, like, you know, both those forms of help. Like there, there are times where your back is really up against the wall, and you need Jupiter. But in the long run, Venus is help is actually a lot more sustainable, because she's teaching you how to help yourself. giving you hints to solve the riddle is helping you to solve it on your own. And the next time you come up against that problem, you're going to be better equipped to solve it yourself. And if Jupiter isn't there to bail you out, for whatever reason, you still have the capacity of doing it, because you had that pre previous help from Venus.
Kyle Pierce 27:50
Yeah, no, that's, I love that. That's perfect analogy. I even find that, you know, just like looking at charts, like, I don't know, if you notice the same thing, but like sextiles, in which Venus is involved, seem to be more powerful. They seem to be more visible in the life like you're like, Oh, wow. Yeah, that's, you know, that's, that's their, like, for example, Shay's Shay's chart, she has this lovely Venus in Libra sextile Saturn in Sagittarius, which I love. Because I've seen this one before. So my favorites, but it's also, you know, there's reception involved. But I think Venus, you know, works really well through sextiles because it's like her tool, you know, it's like, Oh, I know what to do here. I know how to make this work.
Tristan Paylor 28:41
That is a really, really good point. I think that's a good thing to keep in mind when you're interpreting aspects. You know, if you see a Trine involving Jupiter, that is especially powerful and if you see a sextile involving Venus, that's especially powerful for exactly that reason like that. Those are their tools. Yeah, they are the best equipped to know how to use them. Venus is best equipped to know how to make the most out of a sextile so you know, a sextile from Venus might even be more powerful than a trine between, you know, to other planets. Oh, yeah, you know, a train a train from or a sextile from Venus might be more powerful than you know, a trine between the sun and the moon or something because Jupiter is not involved in that Trine. But Venus is involved in the sextile
Kyle Pierce 29:29
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And that's something that I just ended up noticing more and more is that really like digging into the planets that are involved in an aspect is really going to be essential to how you interpret it, interpret them, you get things like reception, you know, the signs that they're in their relationships to the signs, the relationships to each other signs, but just the plants themselves.
Tristan Paylor 29:56
Yeah, I've got an extremely close Venus sextile with mercury in my chart. And I think I mean, maybe that's part of the reason why sextiles are just as powerful as trines is a hill that I will die on is that I'm very attached to that configuration in my own chart. Because I have Venus in the, in the 12th house where, you know, it's, it's not really supposed to be visible or capable of doing much. And that doesn't hold true in my life. And I have Venus doing a lot in my life. And I have, you know, Mercury up in the 10th house where it's very visible. And there's an extremely close supplying sextile between Venus and Mercury in my chart. And I mean, I'm a, I'm a writer, and that is like, a big right at writing and talking. And doing that in a very Venus II way is basically how I make my way through this world. I think that that sextile in my chart is extremely important to the overall trajectory of my life and what I do and how I find meaning in my life.
Kyle Pierce 31:10
Yeah, I find that that sextile becomes very evident to me, as the one who edits the show. And, you know, my levels are often very loud, or, or very quiet, or I require a lot more editing. Interesting to us. Justin's levels are always nice, and even and smooth. And one of us has a Mercury sextile Venus and the other one does not. And I bet you the one it's pretty obvious who who's
Tristan Paylor 31:53
Yeah, Venus tends to smooth things over, which is also funny, because I have mercury in Aries, which should be harsh, and loud and extreme and all over the place. But Venus is like, no, no shits, okay? And Venus is like giving it a little bit of balance and soothing it a little bit, you know, making it a little more tactful. You think you know, what's going on in the head of mercury and Aries, if that was revealed to the world with no filter would be a lot for the world to handle. But Venus is a very good, you know, you should maybe think about that, like maybe workshop that statement a little bit before you say it out loud, you know, think about how that might make somebody else feel. Shay was kind enough to share her chart with us if we wanted to use it as as an example of how we would interpret trines and sextiles differently. And Kyle already pointed out the really nice sextile in her chart, which will also be in the show notes, if anyone wants to look at it and follow along. She has that really nice sextile between Venus in Libra and Saturn in Sagittarius. And Venus is in the 12th house and Saturn is in the second. So it's an interesting sextile because it's creating a relationship between the 12th house which is you know, how we deal with suffering and delays and hardship and feeling stuck and all that. And the second house is resources and livelihood and how we how we make a living, how we pay the bills. And something I find interesting about that, just like knowing Shay is how she's been able to adapt. The pandemic has has changed what work looks like for pretty much all of us. And she's been able to adapt to a new way of working in her field. And you know, I look at that sextile and I think that kind of makes sense, doesn't it? Where it's like, you know, the 12th house is sort of the I mean, it's it's where we are when we're in lockdown. But, you know, Saturn and Venus working together in the 12th. And second houses are kind of able to make the most of the tricky situation.
Kyle Pierce 34:21
Yeah, one thing that that I often forget about the 12th house. And it tends to get kind of left out, but it's actually important part of what the 12 house is about is foreign and unfamiliar experiences. It's like being in a situation that is just completely unfamiliar. And there's no ounce like showing up in a foreign country where you don't speak the language and you don't know anyone. It's like kind of that sort of situation can be that situation. And what you described it actually fits in really well. It's like oh well this we have this A whole new situation that nobody really knows how to deal with yet. But Venus is there like, oh, well I'm, you know, I know what to do. I can I can adapt to this. And while Saturn, you know, on its own might create some delays and difficulties in the realm of of say finances you know Venus is kind of there to like oh well we have this strange situation and maybe we can use this too as an opportunity or find some way to harmonize what's going on now in the strange new world that we're living in and maybe find a way to make make a livelihood for ourselves.
Tristan Paylor 35:45
And I think it's a good it's a good example of creative solutions being one of the significations of the sextile whereas the train I'm looking at in Shea's chart, she's really just got one trying sign based trine between Mars in Virgo in the 11th house
Unknown Speaker 36:06
and Saturn and Jupiter to actually
Tristan Paylor 36:10
oh right good point. I keep Do you know what you know what the problem is, I have our zoom call on the bright side of shades chart and pour it literally in in an invisible house. This is really funny because Jupiter's in the sixth house and shapes chart, which is one of the houses that's invisible from the ascendant, so things there tend to get overlooked a little bit. And I put my Zoom call with Kyle. Right right overtop of the sixth house. So I see Jupiter. Actually that that is an even better example of a Trine because it involves Jupiter. So she has got a sextile that involves Venus, and a Trine that involves Jupiter in her chart. So she has Jupiter in Aries in the sixth house, and it is trying Saturn in Sagittarius in the second house. And, you know, if I were interpreting this, I might focus a little bit more on Jupiter is offering benefits to Saturn. But whereas, you know, the benefits that Venus is offering to Saturn, I might expect to come from, you know, within che herself, or from you know, people sort of in her immediate environment, the benefits from Jupiter that Jupiter is giving to Saturn, I would expect to come more from social institutions or people in positions of authority. And since Jupiter is in the sixth house, I would think, you know, are there ways that people in positions of authority in the realm of service in some way have been benefactors for Shay that have contributed to her livelihood? And Jupiter is more like, I'm gonna give you a gift or I'm gonna write you a big check kind of thing.
Kyle Pierce 38:11
Yeah. Yeah, it's like getting funding for, you know, from getting a grant or something. Yeah, you know, it's sort of like, okay, now do what you want. While Venus might want to collaborate more supposed to like writing you a check. To go do your thing. Venus will, you know, be? Somebody wants to partner up with you? Yep. And like, oh, let's work together and combine our talents.
Tristan Paylor 38:37
Yeah, like a business partner, as opposed to a patron Jupiter's like a patron. And Venus is more like a business partner. Yeah. So then you could look at those houses and say, you know, is there anybody in sort of the 12th House period of my life who looks kind of like Venus that helps me make a living and, and, you know, attain some financial security. And then you know, you can look at Jupiter in the sixth thing, go, Hey, is there are there any like patrons or mentors or benefactors? In the sixth house areas of my life who are maybe supporting my ability to make a livelihood? That's that is how I would interpret the two of them differently.
Kyle Pierce 39:20
Yeah. Yeah. And you know, they can both they can both show up like that, too. I mean, it's not going to be always perfectly like that. I don't know. It's like Jupiter isn't only going to represent big institutions and stuff, but like yeah, you'll see it more like when the windows when big institutions, you know, play a big role in your life or, you know, you get benefits from you know, actually, he's a quick example in my own chart, his Jupiter ruling my ninth house, and I actually received benefits from my mother being in the middle of Terry, I basically inherited what's called the post 911 GI Bill and I got to, you know, got a portion of my education paid for by the Government. That's like a very Jupiter sort of benefit of just receiving funding from, you know, a larger institution.
Tristan Paylor 40:19
That's a really good example.
Kyle Pierce 40:20
Jupiter can also be like, you know, groups of friends and you can have, you know, even Jupiter people in your life as well.
Tristan Paylor 40:27
So, sometimes the astrology plays out in a really hilariously literal way as well, where Jupiter in Sagittarius in the sixth house, might or sorry, Jupiter in Aries in the sixth house, might literally be somebody in your life who's very fiery and Jupiter airy, like maybe somebody who has like a prominent Jupiter in Sagittarius or something in their chart or, you know, someone with like the sun in Aries and Sagittarius rising, who's you know, there, they just really kind of encapsulate the meaning of Jupiter and Aries as a person. And that person appears in your sixth house, you know, like, my, my seventh house ruler is Saturn in Capricorn. And my partner is a Capricorn rising, sometimes it's just literal. So yes, you just meet a Capricorn.
Kyle Pierce 41:24
Yeah, and sometimes it's, you know, people won't even have placements that are related to it, but like, your experience of them is like, oh, yeah, you seem like this to me. I don't know. Like, I'm experiencing you very much this sort of planetary energy. But, you know, it doesn't necessarily match up with what their chart and particularly,
Tristan Paylor 41:41
yeah, yeah, there. Unfortunately, there are no hard and fast rules. So
Kyle Pierce 41:46
Cosmos likes to keep it mysterious. Let us have all the answers.
Tristan Paylor 41:50
It likes to make us do the work a little bit, you know, doesn't just want to hand us everything. Not even Jupiter will always just hand us everything on a silver platter and do all the work for us. Even Jupiter will sometimes be like, hey, you know, figure this out yourself? I'll give you I'll give you something but you got to, you got to work this out. Not going to live your life for you. I think that's, that's pretty much my interpretive distinction is you know, usually it's more a matter of, of scale, and of one being more creative and collaborative, and the other being more just sort of like a gift. Yeah, or a benefactor. Yeah,
Kyle Pierce 42:30
I think. And I'm guilty of this to some degree too. There's almost like a good reason, not a good reason. But it makes sense to me, like why sextiles tend to get ignored in like transits a lot. Is because they don't show up as like big events as much, you know, they're, they are more like meeting a, you know, like, a meeting with a person or like, even just like you coming up with an idea or like a, I don't know, like, there's something more day to day about sextiles wow, you know, the big card aspects, like the big Jupiter II aspects, you know, the big visible ones, I guess, like they might the kinds of things that people are looking for. And transits are like, the windfalls, you know, or the things sudden events, you know, so like, trines in squares are probably gonna be more eye grabbing from that perspective. But, you know, pay more attention to your sextile
Tristan Paylor 43:36
Yeah, I think it's, it's interesting how I think one of the reasons perhaps that sextiles get forgotten about is that you can make the same comparison with opposition's and squares that you can make with trines and sextiles, because opposition's are of the nature of Saturn, who's the greater malefic and squares are of the nature of Mars, who's the lesser malefic. So Mars is more day to day. And Saturn is more large scale or long term gets. Mars is more short term or local events. You know, just like Venus is more short term and local events. Jupiter's more large scale or long term events. The same distinction happens there with this sort of inner benefic and the inner malefic and the outers, but human beings just innately have a bias towards the negative. So while you know, squares might symbolically be more likely to represent challenges that happen on a smaller, more immediate or more short term scale, we're still going to find those experiences as noticeable and powerful because we just noticed the negative more. Whereas with, you know, positive things, we tend to only notice positive things when they're extremely unusual or dramatic, or happened on a very large scale. So You know, maybe that's, that's an orientation towards the negative as why, like, you know, maybe squares are not actually more powerful than sextiles we just tend to notice the negative more than positive, even if it's happening on a smaller scale.
Kyle Pierce 45:15
Yeah, definitely. Are you gonna, you know, come home from work and talk about, you know, the pleasant conversation you had with your, your co worker, are you going to come home and talk about the big blowout that you had the giant argument?
Tristan Paylor 45:31
Exactly.
Unknown Speaker 45:33
Which story is more interesting?
Tristan Paylor 45:35
Yeah, most. Most of my Mars transits are like, you know, something, something minor breaks down, but it's a huge pain in the ass and makes me really angry. Whereas, you know, Saturn transits are more like, wow, this is a huge, you know, scale life transition. And, nonetheless, you know, I'm going to talk about those Mars things as if they're a big deal. Definitely. Whereas yeah, that's, I think that that analogy is really good, where, you know, a sextile transit is like having a really pleasant conversation with your coworker. And having a square transit is like, getting into an argument with a coworker. And really, you know, from the perspective of scale, they're like, equally significant events, but you find the negative one more memorable.
Kyle Pierce 46:22
It's good reminder to, you know, you cherish those, like pleasant little moments that you have every day, those sextile moments of your life, where things just kind of like all they fit nicely together, coming up with a creative solution. Yeah, maybe a simple everyday problem.
Tristan Paylor 46:37
Yeah, I think that the sextile stuff is the stuff that gives our life meaning and makes our lives easier and more worth living, but that we really tend to be granted. You know, we, when when something's always working, we don't notice it until it breaks down, right? So as you know, thinking, meditating on sextiles is a nice reminder to not take those those things for granted. I
Kyle Pierce 47:03
mean, likewise, with trying to, you know, you can take for granted the, just the benefits you have of, you know, if you happen to be fortunate enough to be a middle class, white person in North America, you know, you're you're gonna have just inherent benefits from that, that or you're definitely gonna be taking for granted most of the time.
Tristan Paylor 47:26
That's a really good point. Yeah, we're trying to can say a lot about socio economic privilege. And that is something that we take for granted quite a bit.
Kyle Pierce 47:37
Yeah. Well, with that, shall we move on to it? This episode of astrology hotline is brought to you by NewsLink. If you're anything like me, you like to stay informed on what's going on in the world. In fact, paying attention to current events, and watching how they correlate with transiting planets is a great way to learn astrology. But as you might know, it can be a bit of a struggle to find time to actually sit down and read all the latest articles. But not anymore. Thanks to newsleave News. Lee is an audio app for iOS and Android that picks up web articles from the most trending topics on the web at any given moment and reads them to you in a natural human voice, liberating those busy thumbs and eyeballs if it works for, you know, that other stuff you got to do. But first time in the history of the internet, the web becomes listenable. So, say goodbye to copying articles and pasting them into Bonzi, buddy Skaros newsleave For articles from topics, your choice and start playing. And that's not all. With newsleave. You can explore trending podcasts from over 40 countries. Now, I know you're probably asking Kyle, to have my favorite podcast strategy hotline, you better believe it does. All you got to do is download newsleave free from www.newsleave.me. And to top it all off, you get a one month free premium subscription by using promo code astrology 2021. That's astrology with zeros instead of O's. Stop scrolling, and start listening. Now on to the show.
Tristan Paylor 49:11
Our second question comes from Mr. Icarus, who wrote in to say that he's been having a pretty rough go since about 2011. Especially in the realms of career and finances. He was working in banking and change careers to the travel industry. And since the pandemic struck, that industry has become pretty dead. And so Mr. Chris wants to know, what lies ahead and how the upcoming transits and his upcoming solar return which will happen at the end of December. How all of that looks.
Kyle Pierce 49:55
Well, I'm very sorry to hear that you're, you know, having such a rough time, Mr. Icarus While I can't promise you that astrology will have all the answers, they certainly want to you know, it's always good to at least get a sense of, you know what's ahead and see you know what we can do to best navigate you know the problems that we're dealing with. So we'll just go over Mr. acres, this chart here. So we have Pisces rising the ascendant at about 14 degrees with Jupiter, ruling the first house in the ninth house in Scorpio, where we also have Venus and Mars in Scorpio. In the 10th house, we have the moon and Sagittarius conjunct the midheaven Neptune is also hanging out there as well. And we have the sun in the 11th house in Capricorn, about five degrees with Mercury Retrograde applying to the sun at about eight degrees, Capricorn. And then we have Saturn in the third house in Taurus, opposing Mars, Venus and Jupiter at about 16 degrees, probably worth noting, Uranus at 13 degrees of Libra and the eighth house and then Pluto right on the cusp of Virgo at 29 degrees.
Tristan Paylor 51:29
I think when it comes to looking at transits, and any sort of timing technique, it's always best to start with the natal chart itself and see what kinds of tendencies are present in the natal chart because those are the things that will become activated according to those timing techniques. So you know, just looking at the natal chart itself. The thing that stands out to me is the opposition between Saturn retrograde in Taurus in the third house, opposing all of the planets in Scorpio up in the ninth house, including the ruler of Mr. Icarus is ascendant, which is Jupiter. And, as always, Mr. Ikarus this chart will be in the shownotes if anyone wants to follow along with what we're doing. So, you know, a big opposition from Saturn like that two really significant planets can definitely indicate periods of life where life just seems to be put on hold. Jupiter is ruling the ascendant. So Jupiter is a really important planet in this chart to consider for overall life direction and how the life just in general tends to go. And it's being opposed by Saturn. It's also the ruler of the midheaven, which of course has to do with one's career and public reputation. So that's another area of life that's being affected by this Saturn aspect. And Mars in this chart rules the second house which has to do with livelihood and what one does for work and one's personal finances. And that's also mixed up in this opposition from Saturn. So a lot of you know, there is some indication in the chart itself, of periods of life that you know, where you may be feel kind of stuck, like there's, you know, an obstacle in front of every path forward and you know, there's doesn't feel like there's any freedom of movement. This aspect is not the end of the world there actually, you know, quite a few factors that that mitigate it and make it manageable. But it definitely is just an indication that you know, if, if this part of the chart is being activated, you know, those might be some of the experiences that it tends to symbolize.
Kyle Pierce 54:15
Yeah, the Mars Saturn opposition definitely pops out because it's pretty close. And aspect. Mars is about 13 degrees of Scorpio. Saturn is about 16 degrees of Taurus, so that applying it's just outside three degrees, three degrees and like four minutes, but you know, those are aspects that while they all matter, they they're definitely you know, if they're in that like three degree range, you're gonna want to you know, pay attention because those are gonna be big themes in the thing but you know, Mars Saturn opposition's. It's like, kind of like the big Mars square Mars square Saturn that been going through throughout November, is it's kind of like you You know, an unstoppable force meets an immovable object. In some cases, you know, it's like running, running, literally running into obstacles, just obstructions that you you can't just like bust through, you have to, like, spook the opposition. It's like you have to build a ladder. You know, the thing with Mars, Saturn opposition people is that they, they work hard as hell. I'm always impressed actually, by how I know like early on, like looking at charts, I would look at a Mars Saturn opposition be like, Ooh, you know, I would think like, that's just the worst thing ever. But I actually know a lot of people with them with Mars, Saturn opposition's and they, you know, it's a very grindy kind of work ethic, like the will just kind of put a lot of energy and focus into projects. And, you know, there's almost like a can be like, an insane amount of endurance to, sometimes to one's detriment. But, um, you know, having the softer planets, Venus and Jupiter kind of mixed up in there, you know, does create, you know, a mixed bag if they're there to sort of help and smooth out a little bit, but they're also kind of getting chewed up a little in there. But fortunately, you know, Jupiter, and Venus, they're sort of separating from that opposition. So, sort of the indication that the obstacles will become lessened over time, you know, that there were more surmountable.
Tristan Paylor 56:33
Oh, yeah, that that really jumped out at me to just how Venus and Jupiter are up in the ninth house in Scorpio. And although they're, you know, present in the same sign as Mars and being opposed by Saturn, as well. So kind of mixed up in that whole configuration. They're both moving away. And the next aspect Venus will make is conjunction with Jupiter. And the next thing Jupiter would would do is enter its own sign of Sagittarius, because in this chart, it's very close to the end of Scorpio. So there's this sort of like transitional actually, transition is a just major theme of this entire chart that I think I'm going to end up coming back to again, and again, over the course of this interpretation. But there's a transitional theme going on with Venus and Jupiter kind of, you know, going through something that's really challenging and, you know, potentially painful or just potentially something that requires a lot of patience and fortitude to endure, but ultimately, always heading towards greener pastures.
Kyle Pierce 57:48
Yeah, definitely. I mean, overall, I mean, the if you have like Mars Ruling Your, your second house in a day chart, you know, they're just sort of a general indication that there's going to be maybe some challenges around around finances or money, or work. But Mars is also you know, it's in Scorpio, it's very strong in its own sign, which can be a mixed bag in it itself, as well. Mars is sort of empowered to create problems a little bit, but it's also empowered to be the solution to problems. I think that's maybe something about that, that Mars Saturn opposition is that Mars in Scorpio, I don't think necessarily wants to just like cut through all the obstacles. I think it would rather like swim around them, as opposed to confronting them head on. Which it can do when it needs to. Definitely, but, you know, it's like a, like Mars in Scorpio. I always think of your analogy, but if you're if you have to go, if you had to go to Mordor, you know, you'd want like a ranger escorting you through Mordor, right? The ranger is gonna know like, oh, in this village of orcs, I actually don't really know much about Lord of the Rings. So I don't know why I'm using that analogy. But bear with me. Mars in Scorpio would know like, oh, around this rock, there's usually a group of orcs, it's going to ambush you. Let's move around that or if they do, you know, bust out my sword and slice through them if necessary, but ideally navigate around the obstacles. But the Mars applying to Saturn like tells me that there is sort of a need to maybe address certain things head on. Maybe just keeping that in mind. One of the things that really pops out to me about this chart is the moon which is conjunct Pluto very tightly the midheaven in the 10th house in Sagittarius. And overall that's like a powerful place to have any planet but like the moon here It doesn't make the moon very active, but the moon is not in aspect to any other planet, any other visible planet Scicli different definitions of this have called, like the lonely moon. And your moon mystery, of course, doesn't necessarily meet all of those definitions, but just not being an aspect to 20 other planets, there is sort of a story there of losing support, you know, potentially isolation, and sometimes, you know, usually the, the remediation for for the lonely Moon is that, you know, you really have to make the effort to seek out and foster, you know, your, your support network, because there is a tendency to maybe seek isolation or to, to not nurture those connections. So, I don't know, you know, to what degree that's maybe showed up in your life, there's maybe been an issue with, of, you know, maybe running into conflicts with people within maybe your support at different points, and maybe instead of be trying to reconcile with them, there could just be a sort of avoidance of, of them, I don't know, Saturn ruling the 11th house, and Mars, kind of opposing it. I don't know, that could have been, you know, maybe falling out out with with groups or organizations that it could have been sources of support.
Tristan Paylor 1:01:23
And there's a lot there's a lot in this chart to kind of indicate dramatic life transitions. You know, the, the Mars Saturn opposition being one, you know, representing kinds of kind of extremes, especially since Mars is so well placed in Scorpio. You know, it can be like, extreme good and extreme bad. And then Saturn kind of stretches those phases out, you know, where it's like, you know, like you've had, it sounds like a 10 year period of pretty extreme difficulty. You know, and maybe there are phases, you know, there are 10 year phases of things being great. And these sort of dramatic transitions between different phases. And the moon being so close to like, right on top of the midheaven is definitely another indicator of career changes, the moon is, you know, the fastest moving and most changeable of our celestial bodies. So the moon on the midheaven can definitely be an indication of, of frequent career changes or changes of reputation or sort of public role. The other part of this chart that stands out to me as fitting in with this overall theme of dramatic transitions, is the conjunction of the Sun and Mercury in Capricorn in the 11th house. And this one I don't think is as relevant specifically to career and finances necessarily, but it is going to be very relevant to upcoming transits and perfections for Mr. Icarus. So you know, it's, it's what I'm going to be talking about when it comes to you know, what, what lies ahead. So I want to mention it in the context of the natal chart. Mercury is retrograde in this chart, and is diving into the sun. And when it does this, when, when Mercury goes, performs a conjunction like this with the sun, it's it's part of a larger cycle that happens between Mercury and the sun, and it represents a transitional point in that cycle. So mercury, in Mr. Icarus is char is an evening star, which means, you know, it's, it would appear if it was far enough away from the sun, it would appear in the sky in the evening around sunset, it kind of sets behind the sun. And when it goes retrograde, and forms a conjunction with the sun, it comes out on the other side, as a morning star. And as it gets farther and farther away from the sun, it starts to appear in the morning sky ahead of the Sun at sunrise. So there's it's a very sort of dramatic transition. It's as if Mercury is you know, literally diving into this fiery furnace, and then being reborn. But that transition from Eveningstar to Morningstar, although, you know, it's, it's a challenging experience is also quite optimistic. Because you're sort of going from darkness to light. It's like you have to go through this kind of initiation in order to go from the darkness into the light. And, you know, Kyle and I were talking about this chart just before we started recording. He pointed out that you know, it's It's kind of funny that you're, you wrote in as Mr. Icarus and Icarus is a mythological story of, you know, a winged figure, actually two winged figures because it's a Chris and his father Data Lists trying to fly to the sun, which is very, you know, that image is very much like mercury, you know, with with their winged sandals, you know, diving into the, into the sea. Yeah,
Kyle Pierce 1:05:27
like any planet, under the beams of the Sun is the Icarus theme becomes very relevant, but I would say, particularly for mercury, for sure. Yeah, a lot of themes in this chart, sort of point to that story. You know, you have the moon, which is rather lonely, right on the midheaven. And, you know, while it's not explicitly A, the exact definition of its Kdrama, yoga, I would read it, and very similarly, but a lot of the could call it remediation. But what these lonely moons are supposed to be good at, is maybe not so much the the implementation of things, but in the mentoring of others, because they're so sort of self directed the moon, when it's not an aspect, you know, it's kind of has its own initiative to go on. And there can be a lot of wandering of the mind, you know, very restless mind, but with a great ability to focus and become sort of masterful in many different areas, but the implementation of things, his where that moon tends to struggle a bit. And just thinking about how, you know, Icarus is the one that, that flew too close to the sun. But his father has like the mentor, mentor role, and that's such a situation, I don't know. And then you have, you know, the ruler of both your 10th. And your first house in the ninth house, which is a house has to do with, you know, spirituality, but also, you know, education, higher education, teaching, there could be a sort of hint in it, that you know, moving toward a field in which you're sort of playing mentor to somebody else, or maybe not having like your hands in the clay as much as like maybe working in partnership with someone who is, it's really hard to know how to apply that, like not knowing more details. But you know, astrology could be a possible career track for you as well.
Tristan Paylor 1:07:33
Yeah, that was something I was I was gonna suggest, too. I think it's interesting that, in this chart, Mars rules the second house of livelihood, and it's up in the ninth house. And Jupiter rules, the ascendant, which, you know, says a lot about general life direction, and is also up in the ninth house. And Mr. Ikarus, became involved in the travel industry, which is a ninth house signification and livelihood, you know, the second house being connected to travel. And unfortunately, you know, that has become kind of a dead end in this least for now, age we're living in, at least for now, but there are other ninth house topics, including religion, astrology, teaching, and I think astrology is one where the travel industry has been hit really hard by the pandemic, for obvious reasons, astrology has actually been flourishing during the pandemic. So, you know, there may be some career options that are still in the realm of the ninth house, which, you know, seems to be the direction you've had in but that are well adapted to the time period we're living in right now. Yeah.
Kyle Pierce 1:08:49
Yeah. And I mean, overall, the chart in and of itself, I mean, sort of points to having lots of options. You know, you have the ruler of the second, together with the ruler of the 10th. And the first, in the ninth house, you know, Jupiter and Mars are there together, which is usually a good sign of like, you can make money doing, you know, what you aspire to do what you love to do. And Venus once means,
Tristan Paylor 1:09:16
the third and the
Unknown Speaker 1:09:19
eighth, the banking,
Tristan Paylor 1:09:23
planets that have to do with finances, their ninth house,
Kyle Pierce 1:09:27
I guess, I don't know the full story about why you may be left banking, but banking definitely works there as well. Meaning, lots of different things you can do and maybe that's sort of the trouble, sort of going back to the lonely moon, on the midheaven is, you know, having so many options, even like, the Moon in Sagittarius gets kind of restless gets bored, you know, doesn't want to get tied down to one thing. And you know, wanting to move from one thing to the other, but having a hard time settling, that that can be an issue and you know, and think you know, Scorpio It's a Fixed sign. You know, having all those planets in Scorpio, the ruler of your 10th in Scorpio is there sort of like, the need to stick with something for a long time? Again, I don't know this story, maybe what triggered the sort of turn of events that he began around 2011. But I don't know, I wouldn't necessarily, like think even need to change, you know, your current career track either. You know, you could, it might be just like a matter of waiting, which I guess we'll get into when we're sort of forecasting the upcoming year,
Tristan Paylor 1:10:34
terms of of transits of significance that cropped up maybe in in 2011, when the problems started, there are a couple of things I noticed that, you know, might represent larger cycles, that you know, are hopefully drawing to a close, the first one is pretty broad, because, you know, it would affect everyone born in the Uranus in Libra generation, which is in 2011. You are having the Uranus opposition, so, and Mr. Icarus has chart Uranus is in Libra, in the eighth house, and in 2011, Uranus was in Aries, opposing Uranus and Libra. And so everyone who has Uranus and Libra was, you know, experiencing that transit in one way or another. But the way that was playing out in Mr. Icarus is chart specifically is on the axis that has to do with finances and livelihood. So that sort of like upset or up ending that Uranus can represent was playing out in the realm of work and finances. And although you know, it's it's a generational transit, I think that that's actually one of the the ways that looking at this transit and how it connects to this cycle can be helpful. It may be the case that, you know, other people in your age group were going through similar things around the same time, and are going through, you know, similar things kind of throughout that period, as well. And it's one of many indications that keeps popping up, as I, you know, look at the timing techniques, that reaching out to other people who are going through similar circumstances might be a really good thing for you to do right now. You know, there may be people who've experienced similar hardships over the last 10 years, who you might be able to reach out to and make a connection with and you know, you can help to sort of strengthen each other and build a network of support. There's, you know, you're not you're not going through it alone, which is not at all to minimize the the uniqueness and the unique challenge of what you are personally going through. But sometimes there is, you know, some comfort in knowing that, like, you're not alone in there other people who understand what you're going through who you can reach out to.
Kyle Pierce 1:13:25
Yeah, I think also notable about that period of run 2011, it's actually in November 25 2011, there was a solar eclipse in your 10th house. While that Eclipse was happening, Mercury was stationing at 20 degrees almost exactly conjunct the moon and your midheaven. It's very interesting to me, it just makes me wonder if maybe around that time, if you had kind of maybe an idea for like a career change, or something that maybe didn't go the way you planned it or I know does sort of look like something changing, you know, the ending of a chapter in your 10th house. But we're also now as we're recording, which I believe we should have this episode out by the time of this eclipse that's coming up the last eclipse in in Sagittarius was December 4.
Tristan Paylor 1:14:20
I think so. Yeah. I think it is December for Yeah,
Kyle Pierce 1:14:23
that could be closing out of a of this cycle. Maybe for you. It's been the last one now wouldn't have their you know, the fact that there were just even if it wasn't around that time, there were eclipses going on in your 10th house. You know, when the things started to go not so well. And that's happening again. You know, maybe that's an sort of an opposite nodes, even, you know, it was the North Node before now it's the south node. It's gonna be signaling this sort of closing out of that cycle.
Tristan Paylor 1:14:56
Yeah, that look looking at the nodes is one thing that makes me really hot. Pull, because they do represent major moments of transition where one thing comes totally to an end. And you know, having an eclipse, going through your 10th house or having one of the nodes going through your 10th house, in 2011, could really represent the closing of a chapter. And in this case, it was a transition into a more difficult phase of life represented by the topics of the 10th house, but the nodes have kind of come full circle where they're on that axis again, and you know, December 4, is going to be the final eclipse in Sagittarius before the nodes change sign. And this also just so happens to be the time when you decided to write into a couple of astrologers and go like, hey, things have been rough, what's going on? So, you know, maybe maybe the the upcoming Eclipse and the change of the nodes into Taurus, and Scorpio might be, you know, a sign of that chapter to a close and hopefully, you know, the chapter that you're entering, or what's being left behind or left in the dark as a result of this eclipse will actually represent, you know, movement towards something more positive, like leaving the dark chapter behind you.
Kyle Pierce 1:16:21
Yeah, exactly. That's very well put. Sometimes, you know, the things that are being closed out, you know, things that are that are ending being signified by eclipses are things that you want to end, just when you think about the ending of a chapter, right? If you're writing a book or reading a book, you know, you're closing the the writer is tying up loose ends, closing out elements of a storyline, and tend to think of the south node can be a bit like that is like sort of pulling in all the threads of the story and just sort of like tying them off. But one timing technique that I have been getting more interested in lately is for Daria, and this period that you're describing, you would have began a major kind of Pretoria period, on December 27 2010, when you would have entered a Saturn Pretoria period. You've been basically in that period since then. And this new period, a Jupiter Pretoria period is beginning December 6, excuse me, December 26, of 2021. And it's a Jupiter period. So you know, there is at least one indication there that you might be moving into something a little more favorable. You know, we do tend to like Jupiter a little more than than like Saturn, right? At least in terms of ease, and things just sort of going our way. So Jupiter will be entering Pisces is that before January or like right around,
Tristan Paylor 1:18:01
enters? Yeah, it's both it's funny both the front area period and the ingress of Jupiter into Pisces are beautifully timed. Jupiter enters Pisces on December 28, just literally the day after Mr. Icarus is birthday. And the Fritillaria period changes over on December 26, which is the day before his birthday. That's, it's, it's very cool.
Kyle Pierce 1:18:30
I mean, I was looking at the solar return. Obviously not the only timing technique that that I use. But it definitely gives you a taste of some of the overall themes are going to be for that year. And Jupiter, you know, it's like just about to enter Pisces it, this sort of a signal that like, you know, maybe there's like some things that you still have to like, tie up, you know, before you can before like the all the bounty of Jupiter flows in, you know, but I would see that as pretty favorable still, like, it's, I don't know, what is it? I can't remember who described it like this, but planets at the very end of a sign, you know, just as like they're about to get into, like one of their domiciles who their exaltation. It's like they're very excited. You get like antibiotic planets, right? That are like at the very end where they're, like tired, they're kind of worn out. But like when they're about to go into a domicile of theirs. They're like, hopeful and sort of like energized. They're sort of like, ah, not to not to get to Disneyland. We're almost there. I can't wait.
Tristan Paylor 1:19:33
Yeah, like the drive there. You know, he took a long road trip to Disneyland and the drive there was exhausting. And I got in a fight with my brother a bunch of times, and I was hungry and had to pee a lot and couldn't find anywhere to go, you know, but like, once I get there, like I know, I'm always there. And once I get there, everything's gonna be great. That's kind of the transition from one sign to a sign of exultation or domicile for our planet. Um, I took a look at Mr. Gross's annual perfections, which is my preferred timing technique that I use in conjunction with transits. It just kind of helps to see which which transits to pay the most attention to that are being the most highlighted in any given year, and may change over on somebody's birthday. So, you know, there's a whole there's a whole lot going on around your birthday, Mr. Mrs. So using annual perfections, which highlight a different house every year. You're currently in a third house year, and Saturn is in your third house. So that makes a lot of sense that you're really kind of feeling it right now. That's going to activate that Saturn opposition in your chart that might, you know, sometimes correlate with these scenarios of feeling very stuck.
Kyle Pierce 1:20:56
Yeah, and I'll just add real quick. Uranus is also hanging out right there, too, by Saturn and opposing Mars. So I mean, you're you maybe are extra feeling the restlessness.
Tristan Paylor 1:21:06
Yeah, yeah, definitely. With Uranus being present during a third house here in the third house. That's definitely an important transits to look at. But you are going to move into a fourth house year, and that will make mercury, your personal Lord of the year. So mercury will be the planet to pay attention to, and anything transiting through the sign of Gemini, as well will be important to pay attention to in the upcoming year. And this is where I think that when you're interpreting perfections, and transits as I said earlier, you know, always go back to the natal chart and see like what is promised by the natal chart or indicated by the natal chart. And so what is indicated by mercury in this chart is, you know, what I was describing earlier, where Mercury is going through this kind of dramatic transition from one state to another. And, you know, Mercury is moving away from being the Evening Star and moving towards being the morning star in Mr. Icarus has chart and the story I feel like that part of Mercury's cycle tells is, you know, the story of mercury spends a certain amount of time acting as a psychopomp, which is, you know, a guide to souls transitioning into the afterlife. So when I think of evening star mercury, I tend to think of mercury in that role of mercury in the role of going into the dark places. But when Mercury is a morning star, I tend to think of that more as as Mercury's more sort of, above ground role of, you know, being more about sorry, the dog keeps sneezing in the background.
Unknown Speaker 1:23:04
That's what that was. It's kind of like crashing and breaking.
Tristan Paylor 1:23:09
He's honking he drank water too fast and is suffering consequences. Yeah, and I think of that transition between the Evening Star in the Morning Star, I think of mercury is kind of like emerging from the underworld and in to the light and becoming sort of more active in the day to day world. So if you know that story is a part of your own story, Mr. Icarus in a significant way, this year would be one of the years where that story becomes really prominent. And Mercury is in the 11th house, in your natal chart, which is the house of communities, alliances, friendships, social networks, all that kind of stuff. And it is also it is considered the house that supports the 10th house. So the 11th House doesn't necessarily represent career, but it is those things that are foundational or act as a support structure to one's career. So, you know, it's it's making me think that this year will be an important one in terms of like building a supportive foundation for your career. It's not necessarily like you know, major, major active career moves are not necessarily the major theme of this year. Not to say they can happen like you have, you know, free will, anything can happen. But thematically, it's sort of saying like, pay attention to the foundation upon which your career and your role in the world is built. And the the sources and networks of support that that is built on, like focus on reaching out to community and networking and all of that kind of stuff.
Kyle Pierce 1:25:12
Yeah, yeah, and not taking those connections for granted to you know.
Tristan Paylor 1:25:19
Another important thing to pay attention to during a Mercury year are the Mercury Retrograde periods. Those are extra significant when Mercury is your Lord of the year. And an interesting thing about the upcoming Mercury Retrograde periods in 2022 is that each one of them is going to span two signs. So you know, if there wasn't an already as if there wasn't enough symbolism, both in this chart and and the timing techniques right now of sort of being between two worlds or being on a bridge between two worlds and undergoing something transitional. The retrograde periods that you're gonna get in your Mercury year actually straddle two signs every time and so they will bounce between two houses every time they happen. So the the retrograde periods coming up in 2022. There's one from January 14 to February 3, that will happen in Aquarius and Capricorn. And that one will hit the 11th house and you'll have a Mercury return during that retrograde period. So that will be an important one to pay attention to. And then from May 2 to June 2, Mercury will be retrograde will move from Gemini and retrograde into Taurus. And since this is a fourth house year, that when Mercury is in Gemini, it will transit through the fourth house. So that will be another really important one to pay attention to, you know, maybe something significant goes on around that time.
Kyle Pierce 1:27:13
Yeah, no, there will be a Mars Retrograde as well, around that time period through Gemini
Tristan Paylor 1:27:19
was a double whammy around the same time it's Mercury retrograde. Now there there are three playing there are four but the fourth one next year is going to happen in really late December after Mr. Chris's next birthday. So it's not as relevant because mercury won't be a Time Lord, for its fourth retrograde period but the January to February May to June and September to October retro grades next year. Definitely keep an eye on those.
Kyle Pierce 1:27:50
Yeah, I would also keep an eye on See, it'll be August that Mars enters Gemini, and it's going to go through retrograde cycle there. And it's going to be saying they're basically for the rest of the fourth house here. So maybe things to to look out for is you know, issues around you know, home and family obviously the the fourth house second, and especially because you know this Uranus some opposition with Mars and the conjunction with Saturn especially because we're getting you know, activations of both of those planets you know, we have the ongoing Saturn Uranus Square gets aggravated every time Mars makes a hard aspect with with both of them, you're rather tied up in that cycle as well. So it's a rough, it's been a rough year, I would say for for the Fixed sign folk. And while you know, we're not entirely out of the woods yet, I think that once Uranus and something separating from Saturn for good, which your case, it's probably not going to be until 2023 I'm a little more a little less worried about the conjunction with Saturn though, than the the opposition with Mars that can be kind of maybe an excessive energy of like wanting to find solutions to the problems but sometimes you know making a mess of things when you're you're trying to fix stuff. So I would maybe exercise caution in I know making maybe sudden abrupt changes even that could be like opportunities that open up the that you may just need to like explore a little bit before before you dive in. But overall going along with what Tristan was saying. This this kind of coming year being a year of transitions it's not so much the least astrologically you don't necessarily see this as the year where like you go from like rags to riches per se but you know where things start to shift where some some We should start appearing and maybe the way forward sorts have become a little clearer. But there's still sort of work to be done.
Tristan Paylor 1:30:07
Yeah. And if you know if there's something like, say, a potential career change, which, you know, it is that is, it's never too late to, you know, get training or change direction. Oh, yeah. But that is obviously something that that takes time. Yeah. You know, I've been in a situation like a lot of folks were, you know, the area I was working in, I don't want to call it industry because I was working for the church. So that seems weird. But yeah, like, that's, that's sort of, I don't know that I'd call it an industry, but you know, where the my method of employment prior to the pandemic is just not really an option anymore. And I am also, you know, unemployed, and I'm making a transition into being an astrologer full time. But that's, you know, the kind of thing like, there are lots of opportunities for astrologers right now. And it's one of those professions that's very flexible, because you can do so much online, and you can meet with people online, so you don't have to meet with people in person. But it's still a, it still takes a while to sort of get yourself established in something new. So I wonder if, you know, that might be sort of what's going on with this upcoming year where there is, there are opportunities for a change of direction, but you know, it's not, not like you're going to be well established right out of the gate, and, you know, Mercury being retrograde in your chart and going through these kind of funny retrograde cycles next year, you know, sometimes that's a little bit about like, things just, you know, taking the time that they need to take, like having to, you know, sort of go back in a sense and take like a training program, or a course or something like that, you know, later in life, it can feel almost like going backwards to go forwards. And that's kind of, you know, part of the symbolism of Mercury Retrograde is maybe going backwards to go forwards.
Kyle Pierce 1:32:22
Yeah, Mercury year is gonna look a lot like that. And, you know, funny thing is something that Tristan and I have in common with Mr. Icarus is that we all have our first house rulers in Scorpio. So there's a lot I think, going on, for the fixed signs, we've got Uranus going through opposing all of our Scorpio stuff, but now we have, you know, a series of eclipses coming through. And while eclipses can be a little scary, if you're familiar with Tarot, it's a little bit like drawing the death card, which, you know, can scare people it but it's also you know, a time of change in time where, you know, letting old things go, that need to go to make space for new things. And, again, with the, you know, the transition, it's, it's speaking very loudly that this is like a trans formative time, it's just not all going to happen overnight. It's maybe something that people get wrapped up in with Scorpio is like the the transformation thing. But, like, you know, it's a Fixed sign, you know, things that those changes take a long time to happen. You know, it's like you got to re route all the plumbing, sort of build the new foundation.
Tristan Paylor 1:33:33
I did, I don't actually use solar returns a lot in my practice, but solar returns were asked about in the question, so I decided to take a peek at your Solar Return chart as well. And when you're using solar returns in conjunction with perfections, it is important to look at where the Lord Of The Year lands in the Solar Return chart. So also, I'll put Mr. Chris's Solar Return chart in the show notes as well, if anybody wants to look at it and follow along. I'm just going to briefly mention a couple of things. So the one interpretive principle I just mentioned is look at where the Lord Of The Year falls in the solar return. So Mr. Icarus is upcoming Lord of the years mercury and that is located in the sixth house in the Solar Return chart. And the ruler of the solar return Ascendant is the Sun which is also in the sixth house. Yes. Okay. So both both the Lord of the year and the ruler of the solar returned ascendant are in the sixth house, which makes the sixth house pretty heavily emphasized in the Solar Return chart. And so you know, you have themes of of long time referring patients and of service that come up there. And I think that when I see that I see an indication of a sort of reinforcing indication that this is a good time to reach out to people who are in similar difficult circumstances. Yeah, you know, if there are ways that you can be of service to people who are going through what you're going through another interpretive principle when you're combining perfections, with solar return charts, is to look at where the sign activated by the perfection is in the Solar Return chart. So it's a fourth house year for Mr. Icarus, which activates the sign of Gemini. So using this technique you would look for, whereas Gemini in the Solar Return chart, and in this case, it's in the 11th house. So I thought that was kind of beautiful, because it's reinforcing, like, you know, you have mercury in the 11th house in your natal chart, the Solar Return chart is highlighting the 11th house and the sixth house. So I just I feel like there are all of these really, really reinforcing themes of how can you connect with people who are going through what you're going through right now? Yeah, you're not, you know, the, the sixth house is a difficult place, when when we're in that place, it can feel a bit like treading water. But that is also a place where we can reach out and be helpful to people who feel that way as well, to kind of shine a light into those places where you know, people are, are going through delays and difficulties. So yeah, that's like my, my sort of major overwhelming piece of advice is, you know, look to friends and communities and building networks of support. And, you know, the other major thing I think, that would be valuable to focus on is foundations. You know, as I was saying, with the 11th house, that's the foundation of your career, but in a fourth house year, the fourth house represents, you know, the foundation of your whole life. And as your home is your inner life, it's what your whole chart stands on. So I feel like this is the year to really focus on your inner life and your foundations, you know, both of your life as a whole, you know, your home, but also the the foundations on which a career might be built, and maybe, you know, a career that has more potential for longevity, right? Like, building that firm foundation now sets it up, so that, you know, you hopefully don't have to encounter a situation like this again, in the future. Yeah.
Kyle Pierce 1:37:54
One thing that's making me think of two is that the note of success and like reaching out to finding people who are in a similar situation, it's, you know, having had experiences of being, you know, pretty, pretty broke, at different points in my life, what can end up happening is that, you know, you sort of band together with people in similar circumstances, and you sort of ended up creating almost like little micro economies, where you know, the resources that you have access to, however limited, they may be, you know, when you're teaming up with other people, you know, you can sort of join forces and support each other. And it's also making me think of, you know, in the email that you mentioned, that you started struggling with a frozen shoulder since about August. And, you know, speaking of career transitions, you know, I've been a massage therapist for about 10 years. And so a career I'm in the process of transitioning out of, but it's, I can't help but at least I can offer a couple tidbits of advice. But you know, also on that note of reaching out to people in similar situations, you know, maybe somebody in a group knows a thing or two about massage, and maybe you guys can, can exchange, you know, skills to some degree, even if you're all sort of struggling in different areas. But one thing I recommend is the doorway stretch. Have you kind of lay your forearm against the doorway and lean into your arm, essentially, it just basically opening the pickup. That's one stretch you can do. There's also like sort of a cross body stretch, like crossing your arm over your chest, you know, from the opposite side. These are things you can you can look up online, but you know, frozen shoulder, it really sort of ties into this overall theme of like frozen shoulder is not having worked with it. It's not something that goes away super quickly. It's something that takes time to, to heal and to address and sometimes it's painful. And it's a long term process. And you know, the work that you have to do on it is painful in and of itself, trying to stretch it hurts, but you still have to do it. And that does seem to be a bit of a theme and the shitty part about you know, when you're, when you get in a sort of rut in life, getting out of it is often a painful process in and of itself. But it sucks more when, you know, you don't really feel like you're, you're moving in a direction and I would say that like astrology wise, while it looks like there's, you know, mountains to climb ahead, still there pads head opening. One thing you haven't had since 2011 is a Jupiter transiting through your first house. I would Yeah, I would seek out seek out support from people around you that may be like a bit of a lot of this can be you know, really related to Coronavirus to you mentioned that the travel industry is is really suffering due to Coronavirus and it may be something that they just kind of require some waiting out. Until that passes. Sometimes in the process of, you know, rebuilding you know, you got to cut back cut things down, you know, eliminate things and having South Node going through Scorpio and have some eclipses there. That there may be a need to slim things down a little bit. Trim some fat. Yeah, I kind of like to think of it as like, if you're training for a marathon, you know, you gotta like, get real strict with your diet and real strict with your, you know, your training regime. And that means like eliminating, you know, eliminating the ice cream and, you know, watching TV as much and you know, through buckling down and getting getting focused.
Tristan Paylor 1:41:46
I'm glad you mentioned to putters, there's one one last little brief transit coming up that I want to note, which is that when Jupiter enters Pisces, it will start squaring Mr. Icarus is Moon in Sagittarius. And one fun thing you can do with perfections is that you can perfect from any house in the chart. You know, the overall overall, you know, usually perfect from the ascendant and see where we end up. But if you're examining what a particular area of life is going to look like in the coming year, you can perfect from the house that's relevant to that topic. So in a fourth house year, if you perfect four houses from the second house, which is work and finances, you end up at the fifth house, which in Mr. Icarus, this chart is ruled by the moon. So the moon becomes sort of a Lord of the year, as far as work and finances are concerned. And Jupiter squaring that is like, that's a pretty positive transit to have when you know, the moon is looking out for your finances or, you know, use your resources and that kind of thing. So, you know, maybe maybe something maybe a sign of positive things to come.
Kyle Pierce 1:43:14
Definitely, just Yeah. Really leaning into, you know, cultivating support system. Well, you know, best of luck to you, Mr. Ikarus. I hope that, that you start seeing some improvements this year. And, you know, just hanging in there.
Tristan Paylor 1:43:28
I'm also sorry to hear you're going through such a rough time. And you know, I really appreciate you writing into us. And you know, I hope we were able to give you a little a little light in, you know, these difficult times.
Unknown Speaker 1:43:43
Yeah, keep us updated. Let us know how things are going.
Tristan Paylor 1:43:46
Now, let us know, let us know how the year ahead unfolds. And you know if any of the themes we've talked about become irrelevant, and I hope it's I hope it's a good year. I hope you have an amazing birthday and an amazing solar return.
Kyle Pierce 1:43:57
Yeah, I think we'll wrap it up for today. What do you have going on? Kristen,
Tristan Paylor 1:44:01
I am still doing all kinds of readings over zoom. So I can do Birth Chart readings. You know, you're ahead forecast type readings and synastry readings like relationship readings. If you want to compare your chart with the chart of someone important in your life. See what astrology has to say about that. You can visit my website at bad sign astrology.ca and book a reading with me there. I have been doing a fair amount of writing and you know trying to create content and resources for astrology enthusiasts and people learning astrology so you can find my writing on my website. You can also find it on Tumblr at bad sign astrology. And you can find more of my content on my Instagram which is also a bad sign astrology What about you Kyle
Kyle Pierce 1:45:05
similarly you know also all doing all the all those readings you know you can book a reading with me my website Kyle Pierce astrology.com have also been a rather avidly studying coronary lately. I'm going to be doing some offering some like free you know readings printed out through my website if you join the Ask astrologers Facebook group, probably going to send out a request for just you know, I want to hear some some questions and do some answers and get some feedback on it because I want to, you know, test out my my Horbury skills, because I would like to start offering already, in addition to NATO consultations, here in the near future.
Tristan Paylor 1:45:53
I'm excited that you're learning Harare, I'm going to send you questions. Yeah, please do this. Alright, so fun.
Kyle Pierce 1:46:00
It's what's nice about horror, too, is you can test it, it's, you know, more short term to expect to get like the answer to the question. In reality, you know, within a few days or a week or so. So you can check your work and see what you what you got wrong.
Unknown Speaker 1:46:14
What you got. Right. So that'll be fun. But yeah, I kind of want to give, like shooting a little plug to do.
Tristan Paylor 1:46:22
Yeah, we should. Yeah, it's a great idea.
Kyle Pierce 1:46:26
Yeah, Shay is I want to just say thank you to Shay for sending in her question. She is an amazing tarot card reader.
Tristan Paylor 1:46:36
So there are question about sextiles and trines came from my good friend Shay, who Scott just mentioned is an incredible tarot reader, and you should totally book with her. And she also does, she has an Etsy shop, where she does like custom Tarot Spread layouts, and all kinds of cool stuff. And she's got a Patreon. You know, she, she does a bit of astrology as well. So definitely check her out. You can find her on Instagram, at lightning Wildflower. And there's a link on her Instagram profile to her Patreon and a bunch of the stuff that she is doing.
Kyle Pierce 1:47:21
Yeah, she's great. I highly recommend her. And also, if you want to learn a bit more about reading Tarot. You can join a group every year is every Thursday at 6pm. Eastern Standard Time. Yeah. And Tristan and I are there. You know, we'd be there every week if we could, but sometimes we just have to record this like dumb show. Much work. Yeah, when we're not recording, we are there in the group every Thursday. 6pm. And, you know, she sort of leads the discussion on a tarot card every week and slowly making you're gonna wait through
Tristan Paylor 1:48:04
the whole deck. Yeah, it's it's super fun. It's hosted on the clubhouse app, which, you know, for those of you who don't use clubhouse, it's like a really nice it's, it's a nice conversation format. You know, even if you're pretty shy, like it's very accessible and easy to use and low stress. So yeah, we'll we'll include a link to that clubhouse group as well, in the show notes if you are interested in joining us and listening to what Kyle and Shay and myself and all the other lovely folks in that group have to say about the tarot cards.
Kyle Pierce 1:48:43
Yeah. And you can also you know, participate and share. Yeah,
Tristan Paylor 1:48:47
share your stories about your experiences with the cards.
Kyle Pierce 1:48:52
And then, yeah, thanks again, Mr. decorous Best of luck to you and we will, we will see you all next time.
Tristan Paylor 1:49:01
See you next time. Thanks for listening.
If you have a question you'd like to hear answered on astrology hotline, please send us an email at astrology hotline pod@gmail.com.
Kyle Pierce 1:49:24
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